Andy's Workshop

Hi ged,
I guess this is the reskin you are talking of?



I can always PM DrJimi (Jimi Ibbett) and ask if he wouldn't mind me doing a Reskin of it?

Cheers

Andy

P.S - There goes to show there is still a lot of work out there that everyone can do in the world of models/Re-texturing for MSTS!   

35005CP wrote:
P.S - There goes to show there is still a lot of work out there that everyone can do in the world of models/Re-texturing for MSTS!   

Well, get to it then!    

Well there's certainly lots of pre-grouping stock that can be done, although routes might not be suitable. Apart from LYR there's also a fair number of LNWR items that could be made to name two. The FG DMUs also offer opportunities for models to replace some of the compromises put together by Jon Bilton. As far as I can see there's plenty for me to work on that should see me out!         

rufuskins wrote:Well there's certainly lots of pre-grouping stock that can be done, although routes might not be suitable. Apart from LYR there's also a fair number of LNWR items that could be made to name two. The FG DMUs also offer opportunities for models to replace some of the compromises put together by Jon Bilton. As far as I can see there's plenty for me to work on that should see me out!         

Cheers Alec, I'll take a Class 126 DMU, please!   

It's on a very long list!

Hi all,
Whilst I have been away for sometime sorting the Business out and getting this going, I have now spent the last 3 days ((Whilst I have been unwell) reducing the Poly Counts on the Class 20. I am still struggling to get this to work in MSTS (Which crashes back to the Desktop) - It has however been reduced quite considerably, but I have the feeling it is the coupling hook that might be the issue?
also I have to add that most of my Internal Cab work I did has disappeared and is no longer showing in Shape viewer.   
Hopefully someone can help or give me some pointers please?   
Thanks
Andy

Hi all,
Well after some Tinkering and some Swearing, I have managed to get the Class 20 into MSTS!!! Only took me a month of Sunday's to resolve!   
Next have to get the darn centre coaches for the 4TC to work as well!!
Also does anyone know if there are any Met Coaches such as the ones borrowed from the Bluebell Railway to ride behind Sarah Siddons etc?

Also, on a different note I came across File ID 13588 (West Coast Railway Company (WCRC) Charter Activity Pack) and apparently it is for the route Highland Mainline (HML). Is there a CD for this route or is it in the download library somewhere?

In the meantime, here is a screenshot of the Class 20 (Just because I am happy I have got it to work!!)



Also is anyone able to point me in the right direction as to why I can't see any diesel smoke now coming out the top?

If anyone is also able to point me in the direction of Lights on the Class 20 so that the headlight lights up in the direction of travel, would be very much appreciated.

Cheers

Andy

Hi all,
Further to my previous post I found out what I was missing in the .eng file and it was the following;

Effects
(
DieselSpecialEffects
(
comment
(
the format of these little blocks is as follow:

offset.x offset.y offset.z
normal.x normal.y normal.z
width in metres

defining the offset from the shape pivot point
where steam / smoke should appear,the direction
it should go and the width of the nozzle
)

Exhaust1
(
-0.366953 3.87218 2.85
0 1 0
0.1
)

Exhaust2
(
0.285156 3.88518 2.85
0 1 0
0.1
)

Oh and I found a really nifty smoke tool along the way!!......     

Here are some screenshots;

20189 Standing still from start;



20189 on the move;



And at a stand after coming to a stop;



And for anyone interested here is the location to the Batch files; http://www.3dtrains.com/downloads/misc.shtml

It is the very top one for anybody interested called Diesel Smoke Replacement. Apologies if everyone has seen this download already! But for me I feel it is quite effective!

Cheers

Andy

35005CP wrote:) and apparently it is for the route Highland Mainline (HML). Is there a CD for this route or is it in the download library somewhere?

Please see here for details!

Thanks for the Link Alec. I had no luck in searching for it, but assumed someone would know. Will download and give the route a whirl as it looks pretty fab from the graphics shot I saw!   

Andy

Hi Everyone,
I sent some time yesterday re-doing the TBSK & TFK Coaches of the 4TC Unit and at long last have managed to get it all to appear and load up in MSTS. Screenshot as below!!   
There was obviously a rogue part somewhere......
The 4TC is not yet finished and I will add parts and look at redoing the texture to the front cab of the 4TC.
As part of the pack I am also thinking about doing a MET Coach as shown below! As well as the other Class 20!



Here is the Other Class 20 that I will be doing; http://class20locosociety.co.uk/blog/2013/3/20227-london-underground-repaint

And here is the MET Coach I was talking about; http://class20locosociety.co.uk/img/s8/v85/p1863433594-5.jpg

So far I think 20189 is finished. But obviously I will need someone to test this and everything else once it has been done!

Cheers

Andy

Andy
They're all looking good.

Hi everyone,
Well it has been well over a week since my last post. Today I have fixed a few issues with the 4TC as what I thought had worked, obviously didn't work as it should and that had changed since I Un-Stored everything in Trainstore. I have sent what I believe is now working so far to Justin. Some bits and pieces to do with the 4TC. But I believe 20189 has been done to a pretty good standard. I will then concentrate on the other class 20.
Today I have spent some time doing the texture file for the MET Coach 353 (Or Jubilee Coaches as they are called)
Here is a shot of the texture file and beneath that a picture of the coach as is preserved. Any thoughts on how it looks would be much appreciated as it is going to be for everyones benefit after all. And of course I want to get everything right!
I have to say I am really enjoying modelling and thinking up new packs! But it is half testing at times!
Anyway enough of me going on here are the pics!   





Cheers

Andy

Hi all,

Since I posted yesterday I have also made the texture file for 20227 and gradually going through other textures for this class 20 and is it is slightly different to 20189. But here is a picture of how it looks so far;



I have also done a bit more work to the texture file of the MET 353 coach;




Andy

Hi Andy,
Far be it from me to criticise anybody's efforts, but I think the lining on the extreme right-hand panel of the coach is upside down, ie the large 'rectangle' should be below the small one.
Otherwise, it's looking good! I think that coach, or one very like it, was used during the 150th anniversary celebrations last year (according to the videos I've seen).

Cheers,
Ged

slipperman12 wrote:Hi Andy,
Far be it from me to criticise anybody's efforts, but I think the lining on the extreme right-hand panel of the coach is upside down, ie the large 'rectangle' should be below the small one.
Otherwise, it's looking good!  I think that coach, or one very like it, was used during the 150th anniversary celebrations last year (according to the videos I've seen).

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ged,
Thanks for pointing out that small mistake. I've changed it now. But please remember it isn't finished yet as I will have to adjust the Metropolitan Sign and the 353 numbers on the side and make them more prominent anyway......
Also I have done a mock up of the 3D model in TSM and I need to make some adjustments to that as well. I need to also put some curves in some of the texture.
Yes it was in the 150 celebration for the MET.   
This is one of the reasons I am looking at doing this pack.
Cheers
Andy

Hi everyone,
I have just finished 20227 today and she has now been paired with 20189 for testing. All texture re-working has been done (I believe) and so have resolved the Bounding box through Route Riter. I will then give these 'Chopper's' a run and then run them with the 4TC and see how they both perform....
Next job is to get the 353 Met Coach model right in TSM.... Texture work is complete for the sides, apart from the correct Teak texture.

Anyway here is a pic of the 2 Class 20's together;



Cheers

Andy

They are looking good Andy.   

Thanks Mark. I'm really quite pleased with them mate! I have just run them together at speed and I do think that the braking needs sorting on them a bit.....   
Has anyone any tips to get the braking better please?
Thanks
Andy

Impressive work.

Thanks Alec, a lot of work still left to do and am hoping to get this MET coach 353 into the set when I release it.   
I like putting sets together.....   
Still playing around with this 444 Desiro as well...... It has definitely got me stumped with getting the side and roof textures exact!
I did post a thread over on UKTS and have been given a couple of things to try (1 of which I am still tinkering with)
I wonder how these guys on the other sim get it to work and flow right???

Hi everyone,
Sorry that there hasn't been any updates for almost a month. Been very busy and have also been in discussions with Justin whom has helped me with a few little problems with the 2 x Class 20's.
Here is a screenshot of 20227 with the 4TC behind. I have redone the Bogies for these 2 Class 20's as well.



I am interested in getting hold of Dave Babb or Anton Courtney May as I want to ask a few questions with regards to the 444 Desiro that I have attempted to do a little bit of work on. Does anyone have any contact details for them please? Here is a screenshot of a temporary fix for the sides and roof for the texture wrap around. The problem I have now is that I can't extend the sides to the cab this gets messed up! Maybe the more experienced Modeller will beable to help??



Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks in advance

Andy

Andy,

I think Dave Babb AKA Buffy500 is on ukts still But don't quote me on this.

as for Anton Courtney May AKA Backfoot2002 hasn't been seen for awhile.

Best person to ask is Pete Peddlesden on ukts.

I think both use the other sim now.

Thanks Ben for you're help.... Do you or anyone else have their email addresses please?
Also I haven't tested the 2 x Class 20's in MSTS yet, but I have found a little issue in OR in that when it starts the Class 20's already have their headlights on full. Only when you increase headlight brightness do they go out.... The complete opposite that should happen.
Cheers
Andy

Hi Andy,
It depends on which eng file you've used for a base for yours.
I've just tried 20008 (UKTS File ID 8994), which, as you say, starts with the lights on in OR.
Using 20905 (File ID 16336) the lights operate correctly in Open Rails.
There is something in the readme for 20008 regarding the lights and when using two Class 20s in tandem.

Cheers,
Ged

Thanks Ged, I'm just going to go and have a look in a mo!
Is there anyone on here with experience of the correct lighting procedure in the .eng file?
I will try and attempt downloading (If I can get on) and download both to check the .eng files against one another.
So I gather the exact same thing happens in MSTS then?
Cheers
Andy

Hi Andy,
I don't know on which eng file you've based your Class 20s, but for 20008 the front (white) lights don't turn off but the rear (red) ones act as they should! I don't know if a patch was issued.
20905 works correctly in OR and MSTS, but it's different to 20008 in that it has an additional high intensity light on the front.

I haven't investigated it, but don't know why special coding is needed when running two locos together! As I found out with my Sarah Siddons tests, the lights on the end which is coupled to another vehicle do not show (or maybe that's only when using the MSTSBin extended lighting facility?)

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Everyone,
I can confirm that as soon as MSTS starts as well the lights are on the locos. As shown in the screenshot.



Here is the code in the .eng files to maybe give someone a clue as to where we have gone wrong??

IntakePoint ( 3.33 0.4 FuelDiesel )

Lights ( 13
Light (
comment( Sphere of light )
Type ( 1 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 2 )
)
Cycle ( 0 )
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( ffffffff )
Position ( 0.0 3.864 8.392 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 400.00 )
Angle ( 10.0 )
)
)
)
Light (
comment ( Head light bright )
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 2 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( ffffffff )
Position ( -0.125 1.755 6.55 )
Azimuth ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.5 )
)
)
)
Light (
comment ( Head light bright 2 )
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 2 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( ffffffff )
Position ( -0.125 1.755 6.56 )
Azimuth ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.25 )
)
)
)
Light (
comment ( Rear Head light bright )
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 1 )
Unit ( 3 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( ffffffff )
Position ( 0.3 1.755 -6.5 )
Azimuth ( -180 -180 -180 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.5 )
)
)
)
Light (
comment ( Rear Head light bright 2 )
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 1 )
Unit ( 3 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( ffffffff )
Position ( 0.3 1.755 -6.55 )
Azimuth ( -180 -180 -180 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.25 )
)
)
)
Light (
comment( Marker light left foward)
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 2 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( ffffffff )
Position ( -0.552 1.76 6.46 )
Azimuth ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.25 )
)
)
)
Light (
comment( Marker light right foward)
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 2 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( ffffffff )
Position ( 0.6 1.76 6.46 )
Azimuth ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.25 )
)
)
)
Light (
comment( Marker light left Rear)
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 1 )
Unit ( 3 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( ffffffff )
Position ( -0.75 1.85 -6.46 )
Azimuth ( -180 -180 -180 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.25 )
)
)
)
Light (
comment( Marker light right Rear)
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 1 )
Unit ( 3 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( ffffffff )
Position ( 0.6 1.825 -6.46 )
Azimuth ( -180 -180 -180 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.25 )
)
)
)
Light (
comment( Front red light left)
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 1 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( 80ff0000 )
Position ( -0.552 1.76 6.46 )
Azimuth ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.25 )
)
)
)
Light (
comment( Front red light right)
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 1 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( 80ff0000 )
Position ( 0.6 1.76 6.46 )
Azimuth ( 0.0 0.0 0.0 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.25 )
)
)
)

Light (
comment( Rear red light left)
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 3 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( 80ff0000 )
Position ( -0.75 1.85 -6.46 )
Azimuth ( -180 -180 -180 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.25 )
)
)
)
Light (
comment( Rear red light right)
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 3 )
)
FadeIn ( 0.25 )
FadeOut ( 0.5 )
Cycle ( 0 )
States ( 1
State (
Duration ( 0.0 )
LightColour ( 80ff0000 )
Position ( 0.6 1.825 -6.46 )
Azimuth ( -180 -180 -180 )
Transition ( 0 )
Radius ( 0.25 )
)
)
)

)

Sound ( "..\\..\\Common.Sound\\Class_20\\Class20eng.sms" )

Thanks in advance everyone.

Cheers

Andy

I note that in several instances you have used Headlight ( 1 ). My understanding is that this means the actual light is OFF - see here.
Out of interest have you set up lighting sections for each individual loco?

Thankyou for the reply Alec.
I have just had a look at the link you sent me and I wonder If this relates to the ones with Headlight ( 3 ) ??
There are only 2 locos and it will just be these 2 Class 20's as the 4TC unit is only set up as a carriage, due to the fact these were only driven with a class 33 or a class 73 attached.

Hi Andy,
You're using the options of red lights at the front and white lights at the rear.  I assume this is for when cab switching is used (using the opposite view in the same cab!).  If so, I believe you must use the Bin patch lighting Headlight and Unit numbering to achieve this - you can't just use the same default MSTS numbering.

I have butchered your Lights section and have got it working correctly (with 20905) using  MSTS default settings - now to look at the Bin patch manual!!

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT : ... and if Headlight is set to ( 1 ), the lighting control is reversed (but it might be caused by the Bin patch!)

Perhaps the person (me) whom spent a few hours setting up the customised lighting for these engines could explain the situation and the reasoning behind the set up.

I had been testing these engines for Andy and he asked me to reposition the lights for him and try to sort out why certain lights were not coming on. After sorting out the positions for the lights, I then turned my attention to the directional lighting which would enable the desired effect even when the units are flipped/reversed in a consist.

After digging out the original MSTS lighting guide and reading the required section to refresh my memory, I then proceeded to set the lights up according to "normal" practise, which resulted in only half the lights coming on properly in the desired configuration. I then spent a few hours tweaking the lighting configuration until I ended up with what is in the eng files.

The result is that one set of lights comes on when the lights are in the "off" position, dim = lights off, "full" is the reverse of the first. This enables the red tail lights to work properly (for some reason on my computer they wouldn't work automatically on dim). I should also state that these lights are configured to work without the bin patch installed.

If anyone would like to create a replacement lighting scheme for these engines feel free to do so.

Justin

Hi Justin,
Thanks for the explanation  I know nothing about MSTS lighting except the snippets of information picked up along the way.  This problem of Andy's seems like the opportunity to learn a bit more!

A couple of questions, to you or Andy.
As you're not using the facilities of the Bin patch, am I right in assuming that the cab-switching facility won't be used (ie change from looking out of the 'flat' end to looking along the bonnet)?
If the Class 20 is at the tail end of the consist, are the red lights to show on the 'flat' end?

Cheers,
Ged

Hi all,
I am currently working with Ged and Justin to sort out a few issues..... But I need to sort out the buffers and the bounding boxes still from what I can see....
A question if I may, does anyone know how to make flanges and attach it to the main wheel in TSM???
I hope someone can help with this..... I guess I love to make work for myself....
Cheers
Andy

I believe that one method is to create a thin box located at the rear of the wheel. This then has a texture applied using an alpha channel to make the relevant parts invisible. This is a method that can also be used for the wheels themselves as a means of poly culling! Hope this makes sense, although Ian is probably the best man to explain this!

Hi Andy,
I make the flanges on a solid wheel by making 1 wheel, texturing it, and then do a copy/paste and transform to increase the diameter of the clone. Move it to the left or right side of the wheel, re-texture the left and right faces,delete the edge polys and then in point mode reduce its thickness to the required width. Make a copy of the wheel and move so the gauge is correct and then copy the flange and move it across until it is against the new wheel. You now hopefully have 2 wheels with a flange on the inside edge of each wheel. Add axle if wanted and then join all parts to create a wheel set.

This adds 2 polys to each wheel i.e 4 polys per axle.

I create wheels on the TSM centre hairline axis so that all of the discs/tubes will line up to the same centre and then join all parts before moving into the position on the loco. Trying to add a flange (or axle) to a wheel already in its correct position is likely to give a wobble effect where the centres aren't exactly lined up.

Cheers
Clive

Here is a blown up TSM image of an open spoke wheel I recently made.



All flats areTrans normal with the pink part Alpha black in the ace.

The flange and Rear face sit on the Origin
The outer face on the ace is slightly smaller than the flange and sits slightly above the origin as MSTS track is slightly too high.
Best set this by trial and error.

The rim is 32 sided to give a smooth face, The inner rim is less at 24 sides as it is less obvious. The hub and spokes have been left out for clarity.
These and the inner face are not required for solid wheels.

The flange is made of two flats close together. You can just see the edge of the inner flange giving the illusion of thickness.

The rear face points inward and fits between the two flanges.
It is harder to see so it is not duplicated.

You are free to use the ace file for your own wheels or use my wheels
Email me at ian(at)woodstock-wagon(dot)co(dot)uk if you want them.

Hi everyone,
My thanks go to Ian got sending me the files. Very nice looking they are as well. I have sent you an email as well Ian.
Going back to 20227 showing as beneath the rails, I have resolved the issue now. I re-ran it through TSM and it is now loading fine in OR. I have decided to keep the lighting on the Class 20's as they are for now. I will need someone to test them if anyone is available and has the time please?
Then I guess after this has been tested and uploaded, I will have another go with the dreaded 444 Desiro.
Thanks
Andy

Hi Andy,
Apologies for the late response!

I'd be pleased to check out your Class 20s - you have my email address

Cheers,
Ged

Hi guys,
Sorry for no recent response or updates as late.... Work has somewhat picked up in the past week! (Which is fab news of course)
However, I have had a few evenings free and have taken my testers comments on board! I have re-done the buffers. But one little niggle that is bothering me is the following..Of which I cannot resolve... One of my Class 20's in the dark, the cab on the outside is lit up like a Christmas Tree!! Does anyone know what I can try to resolve this please?? Initially I thought that it was because the roof or sides weren't seated right in TSM. I have adjusted it a little, but still the same!
Screenshots attached...

20189 is fine



20227 on the other hand.....



Also have been playing around with the 4TC Internal Texture view...

Cheers

Andy

Apologies - I forgot to attach the Bitmap texture file of what I have done so far for the revised Internal view.....

Hi everyone,
Does anybody know why 20227 is lit up at night?
Thanks in advance
Andy

Hi Andy

I once had a similar thing happen with some scenery items, (trackside flowers) I made them exactly the same as my other vegetation, but when I ran the route at night they were lit up like a christmas tree, I tried all sorts to try and fix it but nothing seemed to work, eventually I changed them to have a separate night texture and made it black so it wouldn't show up, not sure if applying a separate night texture works the same way with rolling stock as it does with scenery, if it does, it may be worth a try, I never did find out what caused it.

Hi Andy,
This may not help very much, but if you use the 20189 shape file for 20227, the cab isn't "lit up".

Being a bit of a dumbo where model building is concerned, the following observation might be rubbish!!  There is a difference of 217KB between the sizes of the shape files, with the 20227 version being bigger.  Whereas I can appreciate there could be some small differences, the locos appear very similar in profile, and 217KB would seem to be a big difference.

NOTE : the size difference is in the uncompressed shape files.

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Mark, Ged,
Thanks for the replies guys. I have tried as you suggested Ged by copying the parts (Cab Front, Back and Sides) and re-doing the textures for 20227 and voila it is now showing as it should.




Thanks for your help guys! Next step is to try out the new 4TC Internal Texture view!!

Cheers

Andy

That looks better.

Well done, mate !

Ged

Hi Guys,
Well what a day spending some time on my MSTS models! Been working hard with Ged the last few days in trying to iron out a few problems with the Class 20's and just one more thing to check and overcome and then they are pretty much good to go!
In the meantime, have been working on the 4TC Internal Textures.... I hope everyone likes the screenshot!? Just got to iron out a couple of issues with this texture in placement of the windows...



Cheers

Andy

Very nice Andy, you can almost feel the quality on those seats.

It's all looking very good.