Rufuskins' Workshop LNWR Coaches

It looks good Alec.

Those passenger tanks of Brian's are really nice and a good pairing with your coaches, I am currently testing them on the Skipton v1 route.

I am really looking forward to these being completed.
I was told recently that the LNWR built two vans on standard 6 wheel carriage underframes for traffic from the Pryce Jones Warehouse in Newtown. Pryce Pryce Jones more or less invented mail order, based on the local flannel industry. Everyone up to Queen Victoria were custmoers.
Have you come acrosss anything about these vehicles in your research?
Jonathan

I have not come across this, but have submitted a question to the L&NWR Society on this and hopefully those in the know will give me an answer.

Based on information from the L&NWR Society the use of two 6 wheeler chasses for vans for Pryce Jones is correct. I am hoping to find out more later.

Having uploaded the seven available coach sets yesterday I have now completed a further set comprising the 56ft conversions referred to earlier. They were used in 11 No. 4 car Inter District sets comprising the following formation:-

BT (D333B) + C (D176A/D176B) + T (D283A) + BT (D333B)

D333B = D300(T) + D365(BT) (22 No. thus)
D283A = D300(T) + D300(T) (11 No. thus)
D176A = D120(F) + D120(F)  (9 No. thus) - 2 cpts in D120(F) made into 3rd.
D176B = D300(T) + D300(T) (2 No. thus) - 2 cpts in D300(T) made into 1st, and middle cpt blanked off.

I'll post a screenshot later.

. . and here's a shot of an Inter District Set behind one of Brian's LNWR 4-6-2 Tanks.

I'm hoping to find if these were allocated to any specific area of the LNWR.

Currently working on another L&NWR conversion project, which involved stitching two 30ft 1in thirds to create a 60ft 2in third - Diagram D261A. However this wasn't completed until early LMS times (1923-1924) and hence appeared in LMS livery. Here's my first attempt at that livery:-

Have yet to add LMS and Number. I shall initially use a number from the 1923 numbering - I'm not sure what number was adopted in the 1933 re-numbering. They lasted until late 1959.

They will be ideal for use with Brian's LMS variant of the passenger tanks.

Nice work and great to see that you are both working on this project together.

I note Brian's comments in HFL No. 37, and should point out that at the moment I am only looking at Non-corridor coaches as indicated below:-

I am working on these because I have reasonable dimensional data. I can use the WCJS Register by Millard and Casserly plus Jenkinson's book on LNWR for some of the other coaches.
I am using the 1915 LNWR Coach Diagram Book to decide what's relevant to me, and I also have some Set data from a 1919 Marshalling Circular. Depending upon my stamina it may be possible to set up relatively accurate consists.
I also still have to complete my L&Y wagon fleet, which has taken a back seat just recently. Other projects are in abeyance.

Here's my first exLNWR coach in LMS livery - see posts above:-

I'll put the conversion sets into upload format, and then probably revert back to L&Y wagon creation.

For those who might be interested I now know that the 56ft carriages were mostly found on the Manchester London Road to Liverpool Lime Steeet via Broadheath and Warrington Low Level services. There were a total of 11 sets, which was more than sufficient as they often made only a single journey, or at best one round trip, in a day. Thanks to Philip Millard of the L&NWR Society for this information.

The L&NWR Society website can be found HERE.

I've now completed the 62ft 2in conversions and painted them in LMS livery. I hope to set up an upload package for them, as well as one for the 56ft conversions in L&NWR livery. I can then move back onto 50ft x 9ft elliptical roof coaches - two already done. I also need to assess which ones will be repainted in LMS livery. At this time I am only considering LMS numbers as the 1923 scheme. Once the L&Y wagons are completed and uploaded I will then concentrate fully on these coaches, although I will still slowly develop data for SE&CR coaches, as a means of taking a break from them.

For those who might be interested the 50ft x 9ft "elliptical" or "high" roof suburban carriages were developed for use in the Birmingham District ( 20 No 4-car sets), Bletchley District (8 No 3-car sets) and Liverpool District ( 7 No 3-car sets). I shall produce models to allow 2 sets for each district.
Elsewhere I'm still struggling to find out window dimensions for SE&CR carriages, which seems very strange!
I have now completed my collection of SR Wagon books having acquired Volumes 1 and 4 for my birthday. In addition I have Mike King's latest book "Southern Coaches Survey" on order - due out mid November. I am slowly but steadily changing my railway book library to reflect my "passion" for early wagon and coach models, and hence some of my more modern railway books are having to be sold to a second-hand book seller in Huddersfield - living in a semi-detached true bungalow limits space! I normally get a better deal if I take books instead.

Had a go at another LNWR 50ft x 9ft Elliptical Roof carriage - namely Diagram D180 which is a composite used in the Birmingham District sets.

Need to create a duplicate for a second set after tweaking the WAG file.

Fresh out of the workshop is Diagram 284, which is a 50ft x 9ft wide Elliptical Roof Third.

Need to make 3 duplicates as these coaches were used in both Liverpool and Birmingham District sets.
It's then onto the Brake Thirds of which there were three variations, one for each District set.

Very handsome coaches indeed. Roderic

Thank you Roderic for your kind words, and very much appreciated as always.

I've now completed Diagrams 335, 337 and 339, which are all 3rd class brakes. The following screenshot is one of the latter:-

I now need to complete the duplicates as necessary; at which time I can set up the consists/formations for the three district sets - I will use Brian's LNWR tanks.
I then need to put these together in an upload package, as well as the conversion sets.

Here's a screenshot of Liverpool District Set 26 behind Whale's 4-4-2T N0 528 about to depart from Ormskirk on a first test run on North West England V3.0.

May not get as much time over the next few days due to family commitments other than to complete creation of consists for a future upload. On Saturday I've been given a day pass by SWMBO in recognition of my recent birthday when I shall visit the model railway exhibition at Wakefield.

Well despite the amount of time available for TSM, I have managed to start LMS repaints of the 56ft Conversions. Mind you because it's not been constant I have made numerous silly mistakes, but hopefully I can complete the textures and then include numbers, etc. by the beginning of next week. At that time I can revise the consists/formations to include Brian's excellent LMS ex LNWR Tanks.

I now have four more small uploads for these coaches including two in LMS livery. Upload will probably be tonight.

A slight delay on the uploads but hopefully available before the end of the week. In the meantime I have been developing a 3rd class 54ft x 9ft Elliptical Roof Non-corridor Carriage (D274). The external appearance is somewhat different but I have completed the textures apart from the numbers and logo.

Here's a screenshot of D274, which is complete apart from numbers and logo.

A beautiful coach with a very fine elliptical roof. Roderic

Thanks for the feedback.

Right time to take stock on where I'm at with LNWR Non-corridor Coaches, see below:-

Those marked in Green are typically complete and uploaded.
The 54ft Elliptical Roof coaches are nearing completion in LNWR livery, and just need numbers, logos and some typical consists.
I am looking to slowly repaint those already uploaded in an LMS livery with 1923 numbers, as well as possibly creating some static versions to allow filling of yards, etc.
Another area I'm considering is some LNWR wagons, in particular the more numerous ones - I have both volumes of the LNWR Society Wagon books.

I've completed the LNWR liveried 54ft x 9ft Elliptical Roof Profile carriages, and here's a screenshot of Crewe-Chester-Holyhead Set No 2 at Chester. This set comprises BT(D334) + CL(D151) + TL(D274 ) + BT(D334).

I've pushed the idea of static versions onto the back burner, and will probably now move onto 57ft x 9ft Elliptical Roof Profile coaches comprising BTL(D321), CL(D147), CL(D146), F(D107), C(D175), C(D176), T(D283), BT(D333), BT(D333A) and BT(D333C).

Hi Alec,

These are looking as good as ever ( I know I don't comment on your work much but I do follow it with interest and see how your modelling skills have improved ), however, I shouldn't worry too much about static versions as most ones so far don't look as good as the active ones. If my memory is right static versions were produced to lessen the load on the computer; these days they are so much more powerful that I think that they are superfluous. I don't use them for that reason in my activities. An example of how things have changed is in the BrisCard Route. When created the ground signals in Cardiff Canton didn't have lights to lessen the load but since I upgraded a couple of years ago I have activated the lights with no ill effects.

Keep up the good work,

Stephen.

With respect to static carriages and wagons my thinking was based on an exchange of emails with Brian Beere-Streeter about populating yards and sheds with static stock as part of a route, as distinct from including them with activities. We considered that this might better illuminate a route when used in explore mode - I believe that this has been used in some routes already.
However in the meantime I am working on the 57ft elliptical roof coaches - it has taken me a little longer to start as I have tried to get some standardisation in the dimensions of the compartments in the different coach diagrams. I have achieved this although some compromise has been necessary.
I doubt whether I'll do much more this evening as I can't find my enthusiasm! Therefore I'll pull out a film and lose myself in another world so to speak!

Right I'm back on track with the 57ft coaches with the first one (Diagram 175 - Composite) nearly complete.

Here's a screenshot of D175 (upper) and D283 (Lower) the former being a composite and the latter a third.

Now it's onto D333 a brake third. These coaches formed Inter District Sets 230 to 241 with a D333 at either end.

In starting the Brake Third (D333) I have realised that the texture is not quite right in that some of the square panels have rounded corners!

I have completed D333 - front and rear facing versions - together with D283 and D175 apart from final texture tweaks. That will leave just numbers and logos to be added.
I then have six other 57ft x 9ft elliptical roof coaches to complete - these have slightly different external appearance. Following on from this I can create several formations/consists prior to any upload.

Here's a screenshot of Inter District Set 230 comprising 57ft ellipticals - namely D333+D175+D283+D333.

Having completed the 10 57ft elliptical roof carriages, I have sorted out a number of formations for them. This means I can finalise numbers, etc. I hope to complete these by the end of next week. In the meantime I have prepared an upload package for the 54ft elliptical roof carriages, which I'm looking to make available in the next few days.
In addition I'm considering making a few LNWR wagons to supplement those that will be available for Brian's LNWR route.
The New Year looks really promising for this area of MSTS, especially if we can get some activities made available.

Hi Alec.

I intend making some LNWR activities using Brian's route/locos and your stock, I will probably be picking your brains as to which sets to use on what lines etc as my knowledge in that area is a little lacking.

Mark
That sounds great. In the carriage uploads most of the consists represent actual sets that ran in particular LNWR districts/areas, but I will have a look for additional information out of my references. I've sent a couple of emails today with regards to the testing that we've agreed to do, and I would welcome any of your comments.

Thanks Alec.

I'll go and check my emails.

The next uploads are almost ready.


Just one or two more checks required.

Excellent. R.

Following further discussion with Brian, I am now looking to create some L&NWR corridor stock, although these will not come out until next year. I don't have quite the same detailed dimensional data as I had for the non-corridor stock but any models should be an adequate representation. Once we have Brian's L&NWR route and together with the available stock both current and proposed, we should have a very good illustration of L&NWR days. It also shows what can be achieved on a group basis and proves that international co-operation can be achieved.
I would like to congratulate Brian for generating this work, his enthusiasm and quality of work - thank you Brian. It has also reinvigorated my own efforts.

Thankfully by leaving the final checks of the 54ft and 57ft uploads, I've been able to see what's there rather than what I wanted to be there! Couple of ACE files needed reversing and the passenger views were nowhere near a sensible point!      At least I've discovered the quick way to locate them in the Y direction. Up until now I've used a trial method by inserting a dimension and checking in MSTS! Then went back and forth until it looked right! Now I use Ian Macmillan's MSTS Measuring Tool in Shape Viewer. I first open the relevant coach S file in Shape Viewer and then MSTS Measuring Tool as a second shape, and then move this second shape either right or left until the centre line of the second shape coincided with the middle of a compartment window and then noted the dimension, which was then inserted into the PassengerCabinHeadPos line. Hopefully I can now revise the upload packages and actually upload them this weekend.

Glad you found the Measuring Tool useful.

A tip is to copy MeasuringTool.s, MeasuringTool.sd and CabPos.ace into the Default folder.
Then it's only a couple of clicks away.

The status of the LNWR coaches workshop is as follows:-
1. 28ft coaches – V3.0 uploaded to TSSH and UKTS.
2. 30ft coaches – V2.0 uploaded to TSSH and UKTS.
3. 30ft 1in coaches – V2.0 uploaded to TSSH and UKTS.
4. 42ft coaches – V2.0 uploaded to TSSH and UKTS.
5. 45ft coaches – V1.0 uploaded to TSSH and UKTS.
6. 50ft arc roof coaches – V1.0 uploaded to TSSH and UKTS.
7. 50ft x 9ft elliptical roof coaches – V1.0 uploaded to TSSH and UKTS.
8. 54ft x 9ft elliptical roof coaches – V2.0 uploaded to TSSH and UKTS.
9. 57ft x 9ft elliptical roof coaches – V1.0 uploaded to TSSH and UKTS.
10. 56ft (2 x 28ft coaches) conversions – V2.0 uploaded to TSSH and UKTS.
11. 60ft 2in (2 x 30ft 1in coaches) conversions – V2.0 uploaded to TSSH and UKTS.

12. 50ft x 9ft cove roof coaches – dimensioned sketches prepared.
13. 50ft x 8ft 6in elliptical roof coaches – dimensioned sketches prepared.
14. 45ft, 50ft and 57ft slip coaches – started.
15. 50ft, 52ft 6in and 57ft corridor coaches – dimensioned sketches being developed.

Just to be different here is my first effort at a 50ft x 8ft wd Arc Roof Corridor Coach - a composite Diagram 138.

Still needs logos and numbers.

. . . and here is corridor third - Diagram 268.

This too needs logo and numbers.

Currently developing Diagram 316 of the 50ft arc roof corridor coaches and hopefully will look something like early next week. TSM work is proving to be a better distraction to our current issues than I had imagined!

Here are screenshots of Diagram 316 and 317, and like the previous views lacking logos and numbers.

Might complete the other three diagrams in the LNWR 50ft x 8ft Arc Roof corridor coaches - namelt Diagrams 139, 140 and 216 - before putting an upload package together.

These look excellent. I have very much enjoyed driving local passenger trains on the LNWR lines round Rugby and Market Harborough and on to Peterborough using the Bletchley area elliptical-roof coaches. Roderic

It's good to know they're being put to use.