Rufuskins' Workshop LNWR Coaches

I've now been given some dimensions for the cove and elliptical coach profiles to LNWR non-corridor coaches - applicable to corridor coaches. Mind you if I had read my references rather than just examine drawings I could have found these myself!
Once I've got the all clear on the 28ft and 42ft models I'll have a go at creating the two profiles.

I've just received a number of references from the LNWR Society, in particular details for the six wheel 30ft 1in non-corridor coaches. I may well go onto them next? Obviously I need to work out how to treat the bogies and wheels, etc.!

I visited Blackpool Model Railway Show today with Mark, where we spent a pleasant few hours viewing the various layouts as well as talking about Train Simulation over a nice cup of coffee. I was also able to obtain another LNWR reference book - namely "An Illustrated History of LNWR Engines" by Edward Talbot. This contains some drawings and although not fully dimensioned should still provide me with data for potential engine modeling!

Just a quick update for this area of the workshop, which has been relatively quiet. I have received the test/check results from Justin and Mark on the 42 ft non-corridor coaches, and they have been given the green light! I did make one basic mistake in that several of my test consist names exceeded the 30 character limit. I will include several consists that were used on the LNWR's Chester-Holyhead service - could be used on North Wales Coast based on a high degree of compromise!
I have also received additional drawings for the LNWR tank locomotives that were typically used with the 28 ft non-corridor coaches, and hence I'll need to add that to my already busy programme of work!

No significant progress has been made in this area apart from compiling dimensions for the 30ft 1in 6 wheeled carriages - they are among the most numerous of coaches with 800+ being built. I have put the uploads together for the revised 28ft 4 wheeled coaches, but have yet to put them in the TSSH download area. I need to finalise the uploads for the 42ft coaches but time is finite!

Decided to do a bit of work in the LNWR paint shop today, and I've created coach sides for seven 30ft 1in carriages, That leaves another 12 still to do!

PS: Meant to mention that I've now acquired a copy of the 1915 LNWR Carriage Diagram Book, which should be of great benefit to this area of the workshops.

What little work I've done in the workshops has concerned some of the "standard" parts for the 30ft 1in coaches, and in particular the "bogies". I've also now part completed coach side textures for 13 diagram types leaving another six to do.

I've now completed the sides, ends, partitions and seating for the Diagram 297 30ft 1in 6 wheel third, and in the meantime I'm currently developing the roof and braking. I hope to post a preliminary screenshot later this week.

Here's a first screenshot of a 30ft 1in coach - Third to Diagram 297 - of which 800+ of all types were built, many lasting into LMS days and odd ones into British Railways time.

It needs to be run through Polymaster and Route Riter, and also needs a tweak to the wheel textures.

After running the carriage through the various checks noted above and a slight tweak to the wheel textures, I have run the carriages in MSTS and thankfully they have loaded OK and the wheels turn. Here's a screenshot "illuminating" the test at Blackpool North!

It may not be perfect but in my eyes is an acceptable representation, and I can now look at using this model to create at least 12+ 30ft 1in coach diagrams. I'll need to improve the Look Out sections of the Brake diagrams of which there are four.

. . . and here's the next one. This is a Diagram 279 Lavatory Third (TL), created simply by replacing the middle compartment of the Diagram 297 with two toilet compartments.

I've now moved onto the next carriage, namely the Diagram 236 Brake Composite. I've revisited my earlier efforts for the Look Out section that I did for the 28ft and 42ft carriages and I think that this looks a lot better.

Might consider re-visiting the 28 and 42ft carriages that included the Look Outs?

Didn't get a great deal done yesterday as I visited a model railway show in Southport with Mark, despite my best efforts at getting us lost!    It's our first outing when the weather has been less than clement. Whilst The exhibition was spread over quite a large area there were not as many layouts as one would have hoped. There appeared to be more traders than layouts so I was a bit disappointed considering the distance traveled to visit it and the fact that this one was the last for the 2015. However the chance to meet and chat with Mark about this, that and the other - in particular MSTS - was most welcome.
OK. here's a screenshot of Diagram 236 although there are still several bits to be finalised, namely numbers and door handles for the guard's compartment.

I'm having a slight problem with the alpha channel definitions for this carriage, and I hope the attached diagram shows it.

See additional picture below:-

I changed the alpha definition to TransNorm and it appears to work so I'll leave it at that. I've created two with different numbers. Now it's onto Diagram 358, which is a direct conversion of 297 with the fifth Third compartment converted to a Guard's compartment. It had no Look Out but the End had windows.

Here it is - despite the unusual hiccup mentioned elsewhere

. . . and the next one.

Nice coaches but you've missed out the vacuum hoses

I have represented the vacuum brake piping as shown in the attached picture.

Admittedly there is no dangly hose.

Yes I'm afraid it's another 30ft 1in coach, and this time it's a Diagram 170 Composite Lavatory.

Despite the inclement weather managed to get Rufus out twice - had to dodge a shower of hail though! Now working up another carriage and in this case it's a Diagram 197A, which was a conversion of a Diagram 170. This involved removing the lavatory and luggage compartments and replacing them with a First Class Compartment. All I need to do now is amend the textures to the sides and I should be able to create the whole. Mind you I'll be going into the lounge to watch England play Spain in a friendly football match next. That will leave a further eleven (11) carriages to be created. At which time I'll be looking for someone to run the rule over them - mainly for any running problems. I'll then get back to common loads for the LYR wagons. Variety really is the spice of life, although at my time of life the digestive system seems to find that spice gives me heartburn!    

Here's a shot of Diagram 197A, although there are several things to finalise in the WAG file.

Of course I also need to add numbers!

Feeling good as I've finished Diagram 197A, and will now move onto Diagrams 196 and 197.
To round it off just finished watching a good quality Rugby League international between England and New Zealand with England winning 20-14 and taking the test series 2-1. Apparently we've not won a test series for 8 years!
All I need now is for the rain to stop in order to give Rufus a second walk of the day?

Both Diagrams 196 and 197 are complete, and I moved onto Diagram 425 which is a 5 compartment parcels van. It is illustrated below:-

I will now look at three Brake Third (BT) variants of the original Diagram D297.

As has been proved many times before a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing! I have mistakenly been using Transnorm for some of the recent models for the carriage sides but have now been advised that this will not work properly in MSTS itself, so I need to revisit several of the recent models. In addition I've got some textures back to front on the latest effort - Diagram 360 Brake Third. To cap it all off the texture to the sides of the Look Outs is wrong in so far as it comprises two panels rather than the one I've currently used. Therefore no new models will be on the stocks whilst I resolve all of the above.

Well I've revisited Diagram 360 and it seems to be OK except for a minor discrepancy on a texture definition, which I'll sort later.

Once the above texture is sorted I need to work my way back through the current "completed" 30ft 1in carriages and make the necessary adjustments. I'll then complete the outstanding diagrams for this group before revisiting and checking the 28ft and 42ft coaches - oh my aching head!

I now have one more completed 30ft 1in coach to check, and I've started a new diagram - Diagram 84 Picnic Saloon. Mind you I've just realised that I can't add up as I lost 100mm on the coach sides. It was only when I saw that the door ventilators didn't quite line with the doors that it revealed itself!
I shall take a break from TSM for the rest of the evening and go back to it tomorrow!

Always wise to take a small break..... I did some changes to one of the DEMU models last night and I messed it up! Luckily I had taken a backup! Sometimes; when something looks like the sides are aligned in TSM, they actually aren't!

My break started with watching Die Hard 4.0 last night on the computer and Adele on the TV this evening. Between these I managed to sort the dimensions out for the Diagram 84. This meant redoing the sides, roof vents, lamps and the internal seating and in particular the long bench seats in the saloon area. Hopefully when I put these all together the coach will look something like!
Tomoorow is another day when train simulation will take a back seat, as I'm off to Wakefield for their Model Railway Exhibition, and from what I can remember it's not too bad a show. Mind you we had the first snow flurries of this coming winter tonight but it seems quiet in that respect now!

Diagram 84 Picnic Saloon amended and finished and it looks like this:-

I'll now do the Diagram 85 Picnic Saloon which was very similar to the Diagram 84 except for a different layout of windows in the main saloon.

. . . and here's the Diagram 85.

I'm near to completing a three compartment Brake Third (Diagram 361) and then it's onto a different three compartment Brake Third (Diagram 359) with the Look Outs set towards the middle of the carriage.
That then leaves a Parcels Sorting Van (Diagram 419) with a gangway connection, a Horsebox (Diagram 435) and a Fourgon (Diagram 443). The latter vehicles were built for the use of Queen Victoria. The Horsebox was an unusual request at the time since she was into her eighties - the LNWR paid for the vehicle albeit with a degree of "tartness"! The Fourgon was for carrying a horse drawn carriage for HM, although in later years it carried Edward VII's motor car. Both retained their LNWR livery into the LMS period as they were considered to be Royal vehicles, and both were broken up in the mid 1930s.
As I've said before - well I think I have although at my age the memory is not what it was - train simulation can be quite educational.

Diagram 361 now complete although I haven't got a screenshot of it yet. I'll start Diagram 359 (BT) tomorrow and sketch out some dimensions for Diagram 419 (Parcels). I'm also in the process of sorting out some of my earlier work and deciding what needs re-modelling and what needs deleting - this applies to ALL of my efforts!

The components for Diagram 359 are ready for joining together, and that should be done tomorrow. I've reviewed my work on the 28ft LNWR coaches and there's definitely room for improvement and these will be revisited after completing the current crop of coaches. I'll also revisit the LYR wagons and their loads before the 28ft coaches; so there's plenty to keep me busy and interested for the immediate future.

Diagram 359 is complete as is Diagram 419, which is a Parcels Van and is the only 32ft 1in that has a gangway connection, This is shown located centrally although originally was to one side. It was changed to the central location circa 1900/1. They were known to be used in mail formations. Here's a screenshot:-

I'm now working on the Diagram 435 Horsebox, which whilst strictly not a coach is included in the current crop because it uses the 30ft 1in frame, etc. Working on it because I can't take Rufus for his walk due to somewhat inclement weather - that's definitely an understatement looking out of the window!

. . . . and here's what that horsebox looks like:-

Here's a screenshot of the Diagram 443 Fourgon from the 30ft 1in series.


At this time the 32ft 1in area of the workshop will close. The chassis was used for other vehicles, and in particular for Inspection Saloons. Three portable gas receiver wagons were built circa 1899 and carried two large gas tanks mounted side by side. I understand that they were typically used to supply gas to branch lines in more remote locations, and they lasted into LMS days. Some underframes were reused by the LMS to build CCTs, a number lasting into the 1960s! The LMS also used the underframes for at least three Breakdown Train Riding Vans and these lasted until the late 1950s and possibly beyond. Lastly the LNWR considered the conversion of pairs of Diagram 297 thirds into a single 10 compartment third (Diagram 282), and this was eventually carried out not by the LNWR but by the LMS circa 1923/1924. They were withdrawn in the late 1930s, but one lasted in stock until 1959.

I have this evening amended the sound line to use the short wheelbase fitted wagon sounds, and hopefully will be a not unreasonable compromise. The next screenshot is of a formation marshalled for use as Llandudno District Sets (1-9) comprising 2 Diagram 361 BTs at each end and three Diagram 197 Composites. It is hauled by an LNWR Coal Tank - albeit Morpeth Curve's LMS liveried version. They appear to run quite well and I now need to sort them into some suitable uploads over the next week.

The handrail to aid access to the roof really did traverse the end windows!

Would you like someone to give them a test run Alec?

If so I'll volunteer.

They look fab Alec! If you would like another volunteer as well as Mark, then I would be more than happy to put them through their paces!

Looking great!

Cheers

Andy

Once I've sorted them into one or more potential uploads the I'll send them via Dropbox for checking and review to Mark and Andy.

The 30ft 1in LNWR Coaches have been checked and tested by Mark and thankfully he has not found any obvious faults. I'm just waiting on any comments from Andy before any uploading.
In the meantime I am revisiting the 42ft LNWR NC Coaches as they need some tweaking based on lessons learned from the 30ft 1in coaches, and the same will need to be applied to the 28ft coaches.
I recently decided to not renew my Railway Modeller annual subscription, and instead used the money saved to buy the recently released book on Caledonian Railway Coaches by Mike Williams. Bearing in mind their association with LNWR for West Coast Joint Stock it seemed a good fit with my model creation plans; so it's a question of watch this space - I'll create a new thread when I start on these. I shall concentrate on coaches that were available in the early 1900s prior to the Big Four.

Hi alec,

Apologies, had a busy week and although I have created a consist and checked it in OR; I have yet to check in MSTS.

I will endeavour to check over the weekend for you, but a couple of things on your superb models so far;

1) Are you doing any Passenger Views?
2) In OR they seem to bounce off each other from what I have tested so far a bit harsh? I especially noticed it in the points and did the same reversing the stock. I will of course test them in MSTS, but these things aren't too major to fix.

Cheers

Andy

In answer to your points:-
Point 1. At this time I do not intend to provide passenger views.
Point 2. These models were created for MSTS, but I'll wait for your final comments before looking at this. I would mention that Mark hasn't said anything about this possible problem, and perhaps you could liaise with him.

Hi Alec,
A little while ago you mentioned about looking for some 3 axle sounds for your coaches. I'm sorry, I can't locate your post, but while I was updating my MSTS archive today, I came across something which might be useful! It's in the trainsim.com library as 3axlehwsoundupdate.zip; It's meant for heavyweight US coaches, with 3-axle bogies, I suppose!

Cheers,
Ged

Thanks for that Ged. It does seem to be relevant to 3 axle bogies as you suggest, but I'll look at the file in detail later.

Hi Alec,

I've just tried them with some 6 wheel milk tankers and, while not perfect, are an improvement on the standard 2 axle sounds when using a 6 wheel wagon. The interior sounds look very interesting as well.

Regards,

Stephen

I've done some testing of your coaches today for you behind a BR Adams Radial Tank and on the Steyning Route and they behaved well and looked good!

A shame you aren't going to go for passenger Views as the Internal Views look pretty good from what I have seen in Shape Viewer! But a good job anyway! They certianly get my tick of approval!

Here is a shot of them to show you all how good they look at Brighton;



Cheers

Andy

Many thanks for the update and in particular the screenshot, and I'll have a think about adding passenger views!

Here's an update on my LNWR non-corridor coach activities:-
A. 30ft 1in arc roof coaches will be uploaded next week.
B. 42ft arc roof coaches are being re-done - 5 completed so far
C. 28ft arc roof coaches have been reviewed in light of my latest work and will also be re-done.
D. 45ft and 50ft arc roof coaches have sketches drawn up and will be started early next year.
E. The various cove and elliptical roof coaches are being sketched up for creation next year.