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SWT Class 442s

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Post  Welwyn22 Sat 06 Jul 2024, 10:10 pm

My Autism/ADHD/OCD whatever strikes again!

For the past week I thought a lot about the 442s, specifically when they were in their twilight years with South West Trains. A video I saw in 2006 of 2422 and 2420 arriving at Clapham Junction with the 1212 service to Poole has been playing through my mind for the last week. I even crafted an activity for Dorset Coast v6 with that particular service.

However I noticed with the 442s available (2401, 2402 and 2406) that they weren't quite right. The first class section was missing from the first two sets, and the rear two coaches had the same numbers as the first two despite having separate shape and wag files. The names were also incorrect, 2401 as County of Hampshire instead of Beaulieu, and 2402 as Buffy The Vampire Slayer 🤨. Then, 2406 incorrectly had first class sections on both ends. It's also missing a nameplate, so I'm not sure if that is accurate for 2006/2007 or not.

So meticulously I started work on creating more 442 sets that were much more accurate as well as modifying the existing sets. I ended up with a dozen sets, including several in the refurbished livery that lasted about a year. Then once I had worked out all the numerous naming and conflict issues, I plugged most of them into the activity I created.

This brings me to the problem I'm now trying to resolve. The B-end cabviews are facing the wrong direction. With a Down train from Waterloo it was the B-ends that led, but the cab for those faces backwards towards the buffer stops, looking at the second coach of the train instead of towards the throat of Waterloo. All three available sets seem to have this issue, I played around with them all last night and this morning to check each one. 2402 (from Dorset Coast v3 CD) actually didn't have an ENG file for the B cab, just a WAG file, so I created one for it - and the cab on that faces backwards too.

So right now they'll work for Up-direction activities as Player services towards London, but only as AI for Down-direction traffic. Which means I have to shelve the activity I created until I can resolve this puzzling issue for the B-end cabviews.

Welwyn22

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Post  slipperman12 Sat 06 Jul 2024, 10:58 pm

Hi Welwyn22,
It's not a puzzle, mate Smile

Regarding the cabviews - Are the A-end and B-end vehicles built the opposite way around?  What I mean is, when you look at the shape file in ShapeViewer, is the front of the A-vehicle on the left and the front of the B-vehicle on the right?
If so, and if you are using the same .cvf file, that is the reason the cab at the B-end is facing the wrong way.

If I've got the above correct, you need to swap the cab around.  The easiest way of doing that is to use the rv_cvf_maker which is now available from trainsim.com as file ID 68242.  Note that Net Framework v2.0 must be installed to run it.
This will create a reverse of the original cabview named with '_rv' added before '.cvf'.  You will then need to change the B-end vehicle to call that .cvf file instead of the original.

You mentioned that you were using the 442 from the Dorset Coast  (CD v3) which uses the Class 455 cabview; this doesn't have the _rv.cvf version.  If you're unable to run the rv_cvf_maker, I can create and send you a suitable file.

Cheers,
Ged


Last edited by slipperman12 on Sat 06 Jul 2024, 11:11 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Post  Welwyn22 Sat 06 Jul 2024, 11:05 pm

slipperman12 wrote:Hi Welwyn22,
It's not a puzzle, mate Smile

Regarding the cabviews - Are the A-end and B-end vehicles built the opposite way around?  What I mean is, when you look at the shape file in ShapeViewer, is the front of the A-vehicle on the left and the front of the B-vehicle on the right?
If so, and if you are using the same .cvf file, that is the reason the cab at the B-end is facing the wrong way.

If I've got the above correct, you need to swap the cab around.  The easiest way of doing that is to use the rv_cvf_maker which is now available from trainsim.com as file ID 68242.  Note that Net Framework v2.0 must be installed to run it.
This will create a reverse of the original cabview named with '_rv' added before '.cvf'.  You will then need to change the B-end vehicle to call that .cvf file instead of the original.

Of course, if you'd have said which Class 442s you were using I could have checked because whatever cabview files are being used, may already have the _rv.cvf file included!

Cheers,
Ged

I suppose that would explain it. The 442s I'm using are 2401 and 2406 (posted to UKTrainSim by Dave Babb in 2008) and 2402 (Dorset Coast V3 CD).

I do have another idea... My solution for the carriage numbers and First Class section issue was to create two folders for each trainset. Example 442401A and 442401B. 'A' folder contains the first three coaches, and 'B' folder contains the rear two coaches.
If I were to replace the DTS_R shape file in 'B' folder with the DTS shape file from 'A' folder. That might fix the issue, and simply require amendments to the associated ENG files.

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Post  slipperman12 Sat 06 Jul 2024, 11:17 pm

Hi,
Sorry, mate, I edited my post while you were sending yours!!  I spotted your reference to Dorset Coast!

Whatever you do, if the A-end and B-end vehicles are actually modelled the opposite way around, you'll need an _rv cvf file.  Alternatively, if you use the same vehicle model for both ends, but 'flip' that at the B end, you can use the same cabview because the models were originally built the same way around.

Just changing folders won't make any difference!!

I hope that makes sense - if not, please come back!

Cheers,
Ged


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Post  Welwyn22 Sun 07 Jul 2024, 12:22 am

slipperman12 wrote:Hi,
Sorry, mate, I edited my post while you were sending yours!!  I spotted your reference to Dorset Coast!

Whatever you do, if the A-end and B-end vehicles are actually modelled the opposite way around, you'll need an _rv cvf file.  Alternatively, if you use the same vehicle model for both ends, but 'flip' that at the B end, you can use the same cabview because the models were originally built the same way around.

Just changing folders won't make any difference!!

I hope that makes sense - if not, please come back!

Cheers,
Ged

Yes, the DTS and DTS_R shapes were modelled in opposite directions. I replaced the DTS_R shape in 'B' folder with the DTS shape from 'A' folder and renamed it to DTS_R, and then rectified the consists so the coaches were facing the right way.
So, that worked! All I need to do now is modify the ENG files of the DTS vehicles in B folder so the headlights function correctly.

Hopefully soon I'll have some screenshots to share, particularly of 2422 'Operation Overlord' and 2420 'City of Southampton' on the 1212 service to Poole from Clapham Junction. Very Happy

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Post  slipperman12 Sun 07 Jul 2024, 9:28 am

Hi,
I haven't checked that particular vehicle, but you shouldn't need to change the lights for your 'new' DTS_R vehicle, IF they work correctly for the DTS vehicle because they are basically the same.

Cheers,
Ged


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Post  Welwyn22 Sun 07 Jul 2024, 10:11 am

slipperman12 wrote:Hi,
I haven't checked that particular vehicle, but you shouldn't need to change the lights for your 'new' DTS_R vehicle, IF they work correctly for the DTS vehicle because they are basically the same.

Cheers,
Ged

They are, but the ENG files for the DTS vehicles state 9 lights while the DTS_R ENG files only state 3. I've got those working properly now, so I just need to do the same thing for the other sets I've created.

I made the mistake of doing a System Restore while having stuff stored in TrainStore, so I just had to spend the last two hours removing the (2) prefix from the name of every folder of rolling stock I had stored, as well as the activities, paths and services folders of my routes. But that's done now. Lesson learned, I guess.

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Post  slipperman12 Sun 07 Jul 2024, 10:40 am

Hi,
System Restore shouldn't have any effect on a user's data.  I think your problem is caused by you performing edits on stock while it is stored by TrainStore. - nothing to do with System Restore!
I've not used TrainStore for many years mainly because, unless you're very careful, it can cause problems!  I have many separate MSTS installations and use my MSTS_Swap to select any I want to run in the sim, editors or any of a number of utilities, if it's not the default..

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT : I've just checked the consists supplied with the Dorset Coast route and all those for the Class 442s use the DTS vehicle 'flipped' as the rear coach - none use the DTS_B as the final vehicle, for the obvious reason that you can't drive from it!


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Post  Welwyn22 Sun 07 Jul 2024, 7:12 pm

slipperman12 wrote:
EDIT : I've just checked the consists supplied with the Dorset Coast route and all those for the Class 442s use the DTS vehicle 'flipped' as the rear coach - none use the DTS_B as the final vehicle, for the obvious reason that you can't drive from it!

Those consists were probably just hastily thrown together using two DTS vehicles with the rear one flipped. Another thing I've noticed is that despite both ends now having drivable cabs, only the primary one works. None of the 442s were set up for MSTSBIN, so even if the DTS_B had been drivable it wouldn't have mattered whether or not it was on the rear of a set anyway.

The ones I've done, though, are vastly different. The DTS_Bs are now drivable and the DTS coaches have their first class section. Each carriage has its own number, and the nameplates are correct (at least in context of words, since I can't find picture references of those).

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Post  slipperman12 Sun 07 Jul 2024, 8:09 pm

Hi,
The lights on the original 442 DTS vehicle do not display the red rear lights because they are not correctly configured!

Cheers,
Ged


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Post  Welwyn22 Wed 10 Jul 2024, 8:07 am

At long last, it's time for some screenshots!

London Waterloo, this is London Waterloo. Platform Eight for the 1204 South West Trains service to Poole. Calling at Clapham Junction, Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Totton, Ashurst (New Forest), Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch, Pokesdown, Bournemouth, Branksome, Parkstone, and Poole.

SWT Class 442s 53846286617_a0df5d4c40_w01 Waterloo 442s by Harry Lee Douthwaite, on Flickr

SWT Class 442s 53847609155_59f0185312_w07. Waterloo 442s by Harry Lee Douthwaite, on Flickr

SWT Class 442s 53847172636_fa508276e5_w03. Waterloo 442s by Harry Lee Douthwaite, on Flickr

SWT Class 442s 53847172696_557e4f1684_w05. Waterloo 442s by Harry Lee Douthwaite, on Flickr

SWT Class 442s 53847437023_e9bc6c83d3_w10. Waterloo 442s by Harry Lee Douthwaite, on Flickr

SWT Class 442s 53847609270_817242097e_w04. Waterloo 442s by Harry Lee Douthwaite, on Flickr

Welwyn22

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Post  coolhand101 Thu 11 Jul 2024, 10:03 pm

Welwyn22 wrote:

London Waterloo, this is London Waterloo. Platform Eight for the 1204 South West Trains service to Poole. Calling at Clapham Junction, Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Totton, Ashurst (New Forest), Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch, Pokesdown, Bournemouth, Branksome, Parkstone, and Poole.

Are you planning to upload your activity? Dorset Coast is one of my favourite routes.

Thanks

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Post  Welwyn22 Fri 12 Jul 2024, 6:38 am

coolhand101 wrote:
Welwyn22 wrote:

London Waterloo, this is London Waterloo. Platform Eight for the 1204 South West Trains service to Poole. Calling at Clapham Junction, Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton Central, Totton, Ashurst (New Forest), Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch, Pokesdown, Bournemouth, Branksome, Parkstone, and Poole.

Are you planning to upload your activity? Dorset Coast is one of my favourite routes.

Thanks

There's a possibility, but for the past few years the activity packer on my main pc has 'packed up'. Maybe something to do with my uninstalled javascript.

But as it happens there are about 50 AI services and I've also been busy creating 444s and 450s with different destinations (such as Alton, Basingstoke, Weymouth, Portsmouth, Woking, Poole, etc) all done as closely as possible to the real displays. I now have 30 different 450s and 18 different 444s, of course the MT pack only came with 2 of each and all of them had Waterloo on the destination boards.

At the very least I'll probably post a video when I get a chance.

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