UKTS

Hi all, has anyone else seen the notice on UKTS site of the closure in August this year, have I read it correctly. If correct it is the end of an era for me, I send all involved throughout the years both
in the administration of the site and of course all you wonderful creators out there my best wishes for the future.
Regards KenH.

I have just read it, that does not bode well for the future.
We may need to think about a quick depository for a lot of the files....
I have just posted on UKTS offering my services.

I have posted on the forums that any questions for my route will need to come through the TSSH forums as we know the site is closing but the forums there is no question for them but i assune the whole lot is going.
In regards to the files it might be worth just start to down as much as possible and store them on a big hdd then atleast there will be a physical back up, i bet most people would keep loads of their downloads

Exactly what I have been doing for a long time (archiving) and more downloading intensively over the last month or so. And I notice that the site is significantly busier than it was so i reckon others are doing the same.
I am not in a position to run a website but in the future if someone needs a specific file I will be happy to forward it if i have it.
I have no intention though of downloading everything on the site!
Jonathan

Sadly, I think for people like myself this will very likely be the straw that broke the Camels back.I have tried some other Sims, but do NOT like them. I can appreciate that they are OK, but none (to my mind) come on a par to MSTS. Since day one I have had great difficulty in downloading acts (even for ) MSTS hence I built up a great collection of Routes that came with everything required, missing out on such great routes as Glasgow / Carlisle (which I did download but always came to grief when trying to D/L stock) a great route, which soon became a little tired when you meet nowt coming the other way. When my PC finally exploded I lost my main reason for being (Cambrian 1 & 2, and in my estimation Great and Greater Eastern).
I still love MSTS so dont think I'm complaining, and have (at the moment) MEP+, Thames Mersey,, Dorset Coast, Far North, London Brighton (3of), NWEv2,and MR to Carlisle forever installed, as well as a few lesser Routes that came complete with stock.

So to sum up, that will probably be it for me as my membership with UKTS has run out. Sadly just another nail in the Coffin....Neanderthal.

Hi Roger,
According to the posts, you've still got until August!
You can only purchase one month at a time (£2.50) but that seems reasonable enough if you want any more stock/routes.

Cheers,
Ged

In an ideal world we should all encourage creators to upload their content to TSSH! When it was crystal clear that UKTS was to fade away I asked Justin to upload all of my UKTS uploads onto TSSH - I sent the files via email and Justin did the rest!

Since the announcement, I've been doing a thorough review of what MSTS/OR models I have and where they are hosted.

I'm not too worried about my NSWGR routes and stock as they are generally 'dual-hosted' spread over Peter Newell's 'Coals to Newcastle' website, Yuri Sos's 'steam4me' website, and my own 'Short North' website (piggy-backed off steam4me and generously hosted by Yuri). These sites have a reasonable expectation of remaining for the foreseeable future.

However, all my LMS routes and stock, and all my LMS pre-group routes and stock are, at this time, only hosted on UKTS.

My survey to date shows that I have around 1.9 GB (yes gigabytes) of routes and stock to find a new home for. As a pensioner with limited funds, I'm not in a position to be able to fund the hosting fees for this. Asking for 'someone' to fund 1.9 GB of bandwidth at their cost is a VERY big ask, and unless the host can be sure of receiving adequate funding to cover these costs, either by a subscription fee or user donations, is not something I'm willing to impose on them.

Setting up a subscription or donation system comes with various legal and taxation obligations that the prospective host must be prepared to accept.

Separately, I'm compiling a general list of what existing MSTS/OR assets that we are likely to lose forever when UKTS finally closes. After the demise of UKTS, any existing or future activities for existing routes will, in all probability, break, as the vast majority of stock required will not be available.

Before the announcement, I was in the process of making a set of 30 LMS pre-war activities for Clive Heard's Thames-Trent V5 - but, by the time I finish them, UKTS will have likely closed and users won't be able to get the stock I'm using in those activities. So, I'm putting them on the back-burner until I can find adequate solutions to availability of required stock to run them.

Regards, Brian Bere-Streeter

GOOD NEWS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Justin has contacted me and we have had a discussion, where he has shown to me that his hosting of my models will not have a financial impact on him.

Under these new circumstances, I have accepted his offer to host my models on his DropBox account via TSSH. Thank you Justin , for your generous offer.

I will have to do some pre-prep before re-releasing my models on TSSH, so will be progressively copied over, during the next six to nine months or so.

I'm planning four stages :

1 - all my LMS pre-group rolling stock - LNWR, LYR, NSR, etc
2 - all my LMS pre-war rolling stock - exLNWR, exLYR, exNSR, etc
3 - all my LMS pre-group routes - Huddersfield 1920, LYR Heartland 1920, also Black Country 1920 and Stoke-Nottingham 1920
4 - all my LMS pre-war routes - Huddersfield LMS 1930's, Heartland LMS 1930's, also Black Country LMS 1930's
5 - any miscellaneous files that don't fit the above four categories

I'm also going to open up two new forum topics :

- What WE WILL LOSE when UKTS closes
- What WE WILL RETAIN when UKTS closes

These are intended as a central announcement centre, and to encourage any 'currently active' content creators to announce any new or replacement models, as we rebuild the MSTS/OR freeware download library.

More info as it comes to hand, regards, Brian

What a 'can of worms' is opening up with the closure of UKTS. When UKTS closes the massive freeware library of MSTS/OR assets will disappear forever.

The more I look into this problem, the more I see the MASSIVE job we have in front of us to rebuild the asset library. I'm seeing that the rebuild will take ALL of the 'currently active' content creators to 'pool together' and try to rebuild the library.

THE FIRST MAJOR HURDLE :
EVERY locomotive, carriage or wagon uses 'someone else's Soundset' or 'someone else's Cabview', which users have to download and install BEFORE they can run that item of stock in the simulators.

I have, today, done a quick survey of the minimum Soundsets required to run steam locomotives - ignoring, for the moment, the separate can of worms applying to diesel or electric locomotives, or multiple-unit stock.

The problem is - TSSH does NOT HAVE any Soundsets available for download, and the copyright conditions DO NOT ALLOW the existing files to be copied over to TSSH.

I have found SOME of the required Soundsets to be publicly available on either the 'steam4me' website or the 'Coals to Newcastle' website. Whilst these are Australian sites, they do have the common UK Soundsets that we require.

However, what it will mean is that EVERY author will have to amend his/her .ENG and .WAG files to alias to the ALTERNATIVE source of the required files BEFORE uploading to TSSH. If this is not done authors will be 'avalanch-ed' with 100's of messages  "I can't find the required soundset, where can I get it ?". And, we don't want that complication do we ?

The most important files are - 2-cyl generic soundset, 3-cyl generic soundset, which are available on both steam4me and CTN, and the 4w wagon soundset is available on steam4me, but an equivalent 4w loose-coupled coal wagon soundset is available on CTN. Unfortunately no Australian site has the UK bogie coach soundset, but an equivalent is available as CTN passenger bogie soundset on CTN.

The most important message here, is that, ALL existing authors who have locomotives, carriages or wagons hosted on TSSH, WILL HAVE TO AMEND their .ENG or .WAG files, otherwise their current download files will fail when the soundsets are lost on UKTS closure.

Personally, I have a BIG workload in front of me, as I have over 300 locos, carriages and wagons to amend, before I can upload them to TSSH. Other authors who will be affected greatly, will be Alec Ralph (100's of carriages and wagons), and Justin Waite (100's of carriages). There will also be other prolific authors affected who have made 100's of items of rolling stock that will be affected by this major problem.

THE SECOND MAJOR HURDLE :
Every loco, steam, diesel or electric, and multiple-unit stock uses 'someone else's Cabviews', so will be a separate can of worms to overcome as well as the soundsets problem.

Food for thought !!! Why did the earliest authors make it so hard to share their freeware models, disregarding what will happen if they leave the hobby, pass away, or be subject to site closure , like UKTS. The loss of UKTS file library will bring our hobby, literally 'to its knees' - it will take a concerted effort from ALL currently active authors to rebuild even a fraction of what we have at the present.

Hi Brian
Hope you are well.
Thank you for the latest post, as it never occurred to me that the sound files referenced in my DMUs, wagons and carriages are from A N Others! I will of course now take stock of this and see what exactly I need to do!
Alec

In the absence of clarity with respect to the interpretation of exactly what "freeware" means it would appear that I need to amend ALL of my wagon and carriage upload sounds - gulps loudly! As to the DMU repaints I cannot at this stage see what's what with respect to cab views and sounds!

G'day Alec,

Unfortunately, I can't see any other way around this problem - the copyright conditions on all the 'common' soundsets clearly state 'cannot be hosted on other sites without written permission' - as most of the original authors have left the MSTS/OR hobby, it will be literally impossible to setup a new soundset system on TSSH, hence the reliance on EXISTING copies on other sites, such as the Australian ones.

In most cases it will simply be a reference in the readme file to the alternative downloads site for the 2-cyl and 3-cyl sounds, without having to amend the .WAG or .ENG files.

But, in the case of carriages, the only remaining available soundset appears to be the CTN passenger bogie soundset, so every .WAG file has to have the 'sound' reference amended. Another author affected by this will be Darwin Smith with his 100's (1000's ?) of LMS coaches.

I haven't yet done the survey of Cabviews, but I suspect the very same problem, lack of permission to copy over to TSSH.

Unless Justin can convince the owners of 'other hosted sites' to allow him to copy over the existing soundsets and cabviews to TSSH, in spite of copyright questions, so we can all continue the hobby, then it will give us a massive workload to rebuild the file library on TSSH.

Regards, Brian

PS - another thought, while I'm at it. The approach I'm taking with my own files, is that, because most of my stock is cross-referenced in 'Activity required stock lists', I am going to KEEP the original UKTS file numbers, but delete the UKTS prefix -

for example, my file,                  UKTS_36114_LNW-Passenger-Tanks,                            will become,                            36114_LNW-Passenger-Tanks

This will help future downloaders to get the correct file for their activities.

I thought that before I go much further, I better clarify one important thing - my knowledge expertise is LIMITED to the LMS and its associated pre-grouping companies from The Great War to WW2, i.e. 1920 to 1938 - anything outside this is not my place to comment on.

So, if you are fans of the LNER, GWR, SR, or any of their pre-group partners, or the post-war BR steam era, BR diesel era or modern privatization (plastic mu's) era, you will have to find appropriate people with the required knowledge to help rebuild your respective parts of the file library.

It is apposite that you mentioned other periods. I have been looking at British diesel locomotives, and at least up to download no 10000 they almost all use the default sound files and often the default cabs as well. So you can have a couple of hundred class 37s and 47s! It is those who are interested in earlier periods who have a much bigger problem. I have not looked specifically at steam or electric locos but the same may well be true. Of course with more recent uploads the situatioin is different.
But TBH how many absolute new comers are there likely to be to MSTS? It has not been available commercially for years, and though Open Rails is still slowly being developed I suspect that it is the other sims which will have bigger problems. Note how few of the new downloads on UKTS over the past few years have been for MSTS.
Anyway, I am continuing my programme of downloading anything which might be useful in the future, and at the same time altering anything I install to use common sound and cab files.
Jonathan

Hi All,
I believe there are still a large number of members whose primary sim is MSTS although they may also run Open Rails.

MSTS Bin Patch is currently available from trainsim.com and treinpunt.nl as well as UKTS.

Should we also make it available here on the demise of UKTS?

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ged,

If we can get permission from the author, I'm willing. to host it.
If we can get X-tracks, New Roads, and any thing else that is vital for the upgraded MSTS/OR needs then I'll be happy to host it.

Justin

Hi Justin,
It might not be possible to obtain the author's permission - the website given in the documentation bears no relation to the MSTS Bin Patch.
The licence agreement was written by a non-English speaker and so is not clear, but the Administrator of trainsim.com ('Eolesen')  interpreted it as he was allowed to offer it there..
The actual wording is :
License agreement

Software is distributed as is, without any warranty. The author is not responsible for any damages that may result from use of this software. User acknowlidge all feature changes and behavior of game what software is for and what are descripted in documentation. Technical documentation is indivisible part of distribution.
The archive must be distributed without modification to the contents of the archive and distrubution other way than from original web pages must be permissed by author. Redistributing this archive with any files added, removed or modified in any manner is prohibited. License agreement is indivisible part of distribution.

Software can be used only for change of features of licensed game what it is for and only for personal use.

The inclusion of any individual file from this archive in another distribution without the prior permission of the author is prohibited. This means, for example, that you may not include elements of this archive as portions of another distribution of game or addon without first obtaining the author's permission. Any comercial using or using for improper profit is prohibited.
You cannot distribute modificated train.exe or some it‘s part.

In case the sofware would be distributed or used without complying with "Licese agreement", project will be stoped.

Regarding New Roads, there doesn't seem to be anything prohibiting making it available here. The same applies to the UKFS track system
As for XTracks, this is in the FAQ :
Q: Can I host XTracks at my site for downloading?

Maybee, mail me your URL and I will let you know.
Unfortunately, the website (http://www.xtracks.tk/) is no longer available which probably means that neither is the email address : okrasa@xtracks.tk

Cheers,
Ged

Hi folks,

Probably not much help, but xtracks author 'Okrasa Ghia' last posted on Trainsim.com in 2021. Would it be possible to pm him from there? I can't seem to log in there at present.......

X-Tracks, UK Fine Scale, New Roads and Via Metrica Metre Gauge are still available on the Australian Steam4me website. Site states it is fully funded until late 2026, and in the event of Yuri becoming 'unable', his son has authority to continue the site until 2030.

Steam4me also has the 2-cyl soundset, the 3-cyl soundset and the UK 4w short-wheelbase soundset, but unfortunately does NOT have the UK bogie carriages soundset.

Hi Ged,

From reading that it seems like it's the restrictions to what ever program was used to edit MSTS to make the bin patch.
I have just checked the main bin site and it hasn't been touched since 2007. I have downloaded the latest copy again so that I have it in a specific area in my Dropbox and I will uploaded it soon.

Brian,
I know that the files are on Steam4Me, and that it is supposed to be safe until 2030, but it still doesn't hurt to have the files backed up.
Having a look over Stuart Williamson's sound files, there does not seem to be any hosting restrictions, so I could upload them if no one objects.

Justin

I was delighted to see that my model of a Furness Railway 2-6-2 well tank has been included in the Other Authors section of the download page. Just to be clear TSSH has my permission to publish it - and in fact I am happy for it to be distributed on any MSTS or OR oriented site. It is a great initiative to salvage whatever can be salvaged from UKTS, and I do hope that many more files will be saved.

This model was my first (and only) loco model. It was made with the MSTS version of GMax and took 9 months to completed! Should have used TSM I suppose. It is a bit of an oddball - the reason I selected it is that I really liked the illustration in Nock's "Steam Railways of Britain", and secondly there were no outside cylinders and therefore no coupling rods or connecting rods. (easier for a beginner). I was also lucky to receive drawings to work from through the kindness of members of the Cumbrian Model Railway Society.

Tony Allinson

Should someone "in authority" contact Adrian Brown on UKTS (lather) and ask him if he will offer his recent new UKTS posts to here? Even today he has posted some more wagons.
Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,
I have already tried to contact him by PM on UKTS, but have had no reply - he's not even picked up the message!

I have just sent him a PM from this site.

Cheers,
Ged