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Steam locomotive problem

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Steam locomotive problem Empty Steam locomotive problem

Post  Jonathan David Sun 24 Feb 2019, 12:56 pm

I am struggling to get steam locos operating realistically in OR.
A recent example. Using one of the BR Castle locos pack with nine Mk 1s, in OR I could not get speed much above 45 mph on level track, whereas in MSTS and using simple controls I reached double that.
In OR it was necessary to have a very high setting for the cutoff and almost full regulator, though this then drained the boiler. But a GWR Castle should be run at speed at about 30% cutoff.
I also increased the blower setting considerably, but to little effect.
What am I doing wrong?
By the way, I notice that speed limit changes often take up to a mile to come into effect in OR after one had passed the board.
In MSTS it is almost instantaneous most of the time.
Jonathan

Jonathan David

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Age : 74
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Post  slipperman12 Sun 24 Feb 2019, 1:58 pm

Hi Jonathan,
First of all, may I say that I'm sorry but I don't have a definitive answer to your problem Sad

In general, Open Rails does behave differently to MSTS when driving steam locos.  The problem is that we have got used to the way MSTS reacts, even though the almost instantaneous response is just as unrealistic as that of OR, but the other way!  I've never used Simple Controls in MSTS, feeling that they are very unrealistic, but it's a matter of choice Smile

Regarding Open Rails, the earlier versions didn't process vacuum brakes very well - which version are you using?
Higher speed limit boards only take effect in OR when the tail of the consist has passed it, as in real life, with lower limit boards being effective as soon as the lead vehicle has passed it.

If you'd let me know which route and stock you are using, I'll give it a run to see if I can make any suggestions.

Cheers,
Ged


Intel i5 4690K (3.5GHz), Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3 m/b, 12GB RAM, NVIDIA GTX 750ti (2GB), ASUS Xonar DS Sound Card, Win 10 Pro 64 bit.

slipperman12

Posts : 1699
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Post  Jonathan David Sun 24 Feb 2019, 7:05 pm

Thanks. I have just run the same activity again using normal controls though with automatic fireman and I was at the same top speed after 7 miles as with simple controls after 10 miles, but with the safety valves blowing off, 15% cutoff and 75% regulator.
The route is NW England III. I was driving between Chester and Manchester Victoria, the route at one time taken by GWR expresses from the south. I know it is out of period, but the route was unchanged.
The consist was as follows
SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Train (
TrainCfg ( "GWR Castle + BR Red and cream"
Serial ( 2 )
MaxVelocity ( 37.99840 0.28129 )
NextWagonUID ( 13 )
Durability ( 1.00000 )
Engine (
UiD ( 11 )
EngineData ( 5028E "BR Castle Pack" )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( BR_CastleT_Early "BR Castle Pack" )
UiD ( 12 )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( Mk1BCKredandcreamLite Mk1BCKredandcream )
UiD ( 3 )
Flip ( )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( Mk1SKredandcreamLite Mk1SKredandcream )
UiD ( 8 )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( Mk1TSOredandcream Mk1TSOredandcream )
UiD ( 9 )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( Mk1SKredandcream Mk1SKredandcream )
UiD ( 7 )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( Mk1TSOredandcream Mk1TSOredandcream )
UiD ( 10 )
Flip ( )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( Mk1CKredandcream Mk1CKredandcream )
UiD ( 4 )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( Mk1RMBredandcream Mk1RMBredandcream )
UiD ( 6 )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( Mk1FKredandcreamLite Mk1FKredandcream )
UiD ( 5 )
)
Wagon (
WagonData ( Mk1BCKredandcream Mk1BCKredandcream )
UiD ( 2 )
)
)
)
I hope this helps
Jonathan

Jonathan David

Posts : 186
Join date : 2016-08-10
Age : 74
Location : Newtown, Powys

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Post  slipperman12 Sun 24 Feb 2019, 9:42 pm

Hi Jonathan,
Thanks for the info Smile

I don't know if the steam locomotive coding for OR has been completed yet, but I don't think we'll be able to get anything like MSTS-performance from OR without making some changes to the .eng file. I'm not up to speed on that aspect yet, so can't offer any definitive advice. However, I can see what stock you are using so will check it out tomorrow.

Cheers,
Ged


Intel i5 4690K (3.5GHz), Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3 m/b, 12GB RAM, NVIDIA GTX 750ti (2GB), ASUS Xonar DS Sound Card, Win 10 Pro 64 bit.

slipperman12

Posts : 1699
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Post  slipperman12 Sun 24 Feb 2019, 10:54 pm

Hi Jonathan,
Just in case you'd already read my last post, I'm creating a new one so that it registers!

My initial test with your consist using the default Settle/Carlisle route, I got her up to 50 mph after about 7 minutes with 83% regulator and 55% cutoff. Boiler pressure went down to about 209, but was gradually rebuilding and was now at 214. After another 4 minutes, speed was 55 mph with a boiler pressure of 219. Speed didn't get any higher than that, in fact, it started dropping; increasing the regulator to 89% made a slight improvement, but reducing the cutoff resulted in speed dropping. After another 5 minutes, the speed was about 45 mph, but the boiler pressure was 221!! This, to me, implies that the drop in speed has nothing to do with the amount of steam available - so what could it be? I noticed that the WheelRadius is entered as 0.5m, but, according to my little book, Castles had 6' 8'' drivers, so shouldn't the radius be 1.0m??

Obviously, the above was with MSTS parameter values and I'm sure they could be tweaked to give a better performance in Open Rails - let's hope someone more knowledgeable than I can offer some help - please!

Using Open Rails version 1.3.1-25

Cheers,
Ged


Intel i5 4690K (3.5GHz), Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3 m/b, 12GB RAM, NVIDIA GTX 750ti (2GB), ASUS Xonar DS Sound Card, Win 10 Pro 64 bit.

slipperman12

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Post  Jonathan David Mon 25 Feb 2019, 10:19 am

Thanks. I'll try a little tweaking - but save the original.
Jonathan

Jonathan David

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Post  slipperman12 Mon 25 Feb 2019, 6:31 pm

Hi Jonathan,
While I was preparing to add some Open Rails parameters to the Castle, I spotted that it had NumCylinders ( 2 ) which is obviously wrong for this locomotive!  Changing it to NumCylinders ( 4 ) without making any other changes gave a small improvement in performance,  By the way, changing the WheelRadius to 1.0m (from 0.5m) resulted in a worse performance!

After consulting Wikipedia and the steam loco physics tutorial on the Coals to Newcastle site, I prepared some OR parameters for the .eng file.  Unfortunately, adding them didn't make much of an improvement, although I did get the consist up to 60mph, but with the regulator at a high 89%  and cutoff at 45%; reducing the cutoff further lost speed.  In case you are interested, my additional entries are shown below, in red and a modified BoilerVolume in green :

BoilerVolume ( 478.8ft^3 )
BoilerEffectivity ( 1.25 )
DraftingEffect ( 0,8 )
BoilerResponsiveness ( 1.22 )
CoalBurnage ( 3.5lb/hp/h )
MaxBoilerOutput ( 32800lb/h )
NumCylinders ( 4 )
CylinderStroke ( 26in )
CylinderDiameter ( 18in )
CylinderVolume ( "12.8*(ft^3)" )
CylinderEffectivity ( 1.4 )
InjectorSizes ( 8mm 10mm )
ExhaustLimit ( 33400lb/h )
PrimingFactor ( 1 )
ORTSSteamBoilerType ( Superheated )
ORTSGrateArea ( 56.1ft^2 )
ORTSEvaporationArea ( 3633.8ft^2 )
ORTSSuperheatArea ( 908.5ft^2 )
ORTSFuelCalorific ( 13700btu/lb )

BlastExponent ( 0.5 )
MaxBoilerPressure ( 225psi )
Obviously, more changes are needed, but it's a starting point Smile
I believe the CTN site has at least one steam loco set up for Open Rails, so my next task is to check that out, and, maybe, learn more!!

Cheers,
Ged


Intel i5 4690K (3.5GHz), Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3 m/b, 12GB RAM, NVIDIA GTX 750ti (2GB), ASUS Xonar DS Sound Card, Win 10 Pro 64 bit.

slipperman12

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Post  slipperman12 Wed 27 Feb 2019, 4:02 pm

Hi Jonathan,
I've started a new thread, which may interest you!
https://tsforum.forumotion.net/t1358-steam-loco-performance-in-open-rails

Cheers,
Ged


Intel i5 4690K (3.5GHz), Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3 m/b, 12GB RAM, NVIDIA GTX 750ti (2GB), ASUS Xonar DS Sound Card, Win 10 Pro 64 bit.

slipperman12

Posts : 1699
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