Glasgow-Carlisle V4

Go on - you know you want to!

Of course in the end it's your route, so . .

We lesser mortals are grateful for what you have done so far.

Alec

NiallGray wrote:

Questions to the experienced routebuilders.

I've got a mile of track which rises about 1in68 and curves one way, then the other for that entire mile.

It's the section from Thornliebank to Giffnock.

While running a test act earlier, I noticed in a couple of places it's not smooth where track pieces join. Have I done something wrong or does the fact I have tracking curving all the time and steep gradients cause it?

What I've noticed is that on this double-track section, one track lines up perfectly, the other track is just fractionally out. It's not enough to ruin enjoyment of the line and I've never noticed it before now, but then I've never laid a section of track like this one.

Hi Niall

I have noticed that happening on a few hilly routes with switchback curves, not sure if there is a cure for it, it's probably just one of those things in MSTS that sharp curves on hills don't line up properly as you cannot put a cant (superelevation) into MSTS tracks like in the real world.

Hello Niall, (and Mark)

I saw your query on UKTS first and so my response is on UKTS. Rather than duplicate it over two forums, can I refer you to the UKTS forum for my comments as to why this problem occurs and how to minimize it. - see here.

Regards, Brian

Thanks Brian & Mark for your responses.

Couple of interesting perspectives. I'll consider your idea Brian, although it's not too bad and I might leave it as is.

At least I know now that I didn't mess up and it's something I'll just have to live with!

Niall

Decided it was time to update the loading screen.

Just a note to say that although slow, there is still some progress on the route. I've done a little more work on the Giffnock expansion, and the terrain has made it really slow going.

Elsewhere, sundaypm has replaced a station for me, allowing me to remove one of my early V3 efforts. It's a great re-creation and I've decided I'll be updating some of the scenery around it as a result. So until then, no pics, but expect plenty when it's done!

When these are done, along with a little tweaking of scenery in Lockerbie area, the last major task is the Glasgow Central area and Union City Line. If anyone can help, I'm after city buildings, ie groups/clumps of them and low poly (even backdrops would help).

The focal point of the route is Glasgow Central and I so want to improve it, but it's difficult given the amount of objects on the tiles it covers. If you can help, please drop me a PM.

A few pics of the WIP Giffnock extension as I continue to work on the line.


So far I've reached the station on one side, still plenty to do on other side. Line ends just beyond bottom of the pic, there's a convenient bridge in place to hide the end of the track!


I'm quite pleased with how the station is looking. Didn't have an exact replica of bridge and station building but what I've done does give the flavour of the real location.


This pic is so you can see the gradients I'm dealing with. Look at the track beyond the 101. Driving this stretch is going to be a nice challenge. I've lost count of the number of times I've either overshot Thornliebank or braked too hard before it.

The little Giffnock expansion is complete. Just adding in the interactives and then will some testing. I'll grab a few pics and put them up.

As I'm not yet in position to re-work Glasgow Central area yet (getting and needing help there), I'm tempted to pass the time by adding a 13th station and have identified some potential candidates. The good thing is the route has so many potential directions and it'll mean I only have to lay a mile or so track depending on which I choose. Thirteen may not seem a lot but it's almost double what I'd originally planned!

Some pics of the short extension to Giffnock (on the East Kilbride line). As it's diesel only, I've turned the wires off.

Hope you like them.


End of the line.


Entering Giffnock


Showing how curved Giffnock station is.








Thornliebank

The quality of your work continues to be excellent. Love the "S" curve at Giffnock!
Alec

Thanks for those kind words, Alec.

The curved platforms are one of the reasons I decided to do Giffnock, just to see if I could re-create it and I'm delighted how it turned out.

Niall

For V4, Gourock station (my very first attempt at a station) has been replaced.

I'm grateful to sundaypm for creating another excellent model and one of a station I know so well.

All good things are worth waiting for!

Alec

Like Partick, that station is no longer there. It was demolished and rebuilt last year and while nice and clean, has no soul.

For the era of the route, Gourock station was in decline and sundaypm has captured it well. When I was a kid, it was a wonderful station, with the ferries docking right outside, another platform and even sidings. The station was all covered and looked great. Sadly, the powers that be let it go into decline.

What pleases me about V4 the most is while the new lines are not all that long, it will be worth re-visiting older parts of the route which have gone extensive updates. When the time comes for testing, I'll be challenging the testers to spot them all.

Which was the station the 318 demolished several years ago ?

steveenefer wrote:Which was the station the 318 demolished several years ago ?

No, that was Largs. Gourock was demolished as it was falling apart due to neglect!

Here we go, the final map of what will (hopefully!) be V4 of Glas-Car.

When I started around September 2011, the aim was to start small and I only planned to do 7 stations. Over time that has grown and a while back I thought wouldn't it be nice to double that original estimate. Happy to say I have and as long as nothing goes wrong in the meantime, there will be 14 new stations (along with a lot of re-worked existing scenery, a few replacement stations and the freight-only City Union Line that runs from Polmadie to near Bellgrove).

North Clyde Lines
Alexandra Parade
Duke Street
Bellgrove
High Street
Glasgow Queen Street (low level)
Charing Cross (Glasgow)
Partick

Barrhead and East Kilbride Lines
Pollokshaws West
Kennishead
Priesthill & Darnley
Thornliebank
Giffnock

Whifflet Line
Carmyle
Mount Vernon

If you exclude odd re-working of scenery here and there, there's 3 main areas of work left to do.

1) Complete Priesthill & Darnley extension and scenerise

2) Complete scenery around Mount Vernon

3) Re-work Glasgow Central area and City Union Line

This is the job that is going to be the hardest and I've saved it until last as it will need extensive work and will involve tinkering with track that includes dynamic track sections.

I'm worried moving the dynamic sections might cause problems so if it doesn't work, I'll go to a backup and just do a general tidy up of the area. However, I'm not going to touch this area until I know everything else is done.

I was hoping to send the route out for testing this summer (ie late July), but I am going to be realistic and admit I might not hit that target because of the work that needs doing around Glasgow Central. Please remember it's my first attempt at route building and I'm still learning. Therefore, don't ask for a release date!

Niall

Well all right then!

Were you trying to deflect our attention from this excellent route by starting MSTS June 2013?

If so it's worked!

Plenty to keep me going, and hence I can wait.

Cheers, Alec

Not at all.

June Month is all about proving MSTS is alive.

Besides, and I'm sure my fellow route builders will back me up, it's good to take a break from it now and again. Otherwise it drives you insane.

Well its certainly alive based on the current crop of uploads!
Alec

Was running a test act last night and realised I'll have to lay a little more track at Partick as 6-car AI trains disappear in the station because the front coach has reached the end of the line. So I'll be adding a few hundred metres when I get back to work on the route and can then have the AI trains disappearing out of sight of the station.

The biggest disappointment of V4 is that I was never able to replicate the trackwork at the next station along, Hyndland. If I'd managed to replicate it then it would have opened up the western section of the North Clyde lines for expansion. This where I originally wanted to go with the route.

I've no idea if there's going to be a V5, but whether there is or not, I will try again with Hyndland after V4 is done. It's one of those things I won't let beat me, I want Hyndland in the route. If it means having a V4.1 expansion to the route, so be it!

I said I was taking a break from route building, but I failed miserably. So after an evening spent in the route editor, here's a first look at Mount Vernon. Didn't have a chance to turn the wires off before I took a pic.



Thanks to Sundaypm for the station.

Hope you like it,

Niall

Looks really Good Niall!
MSTS Modelling is really addictive isn't it?!
How did you get on with the Emblem that I sent you?

I completely forgot about it!

After recovering from the shock of Scotland winning a football game, I thought I'd share progress of what I've been up to today.

After a few marathon sessions, Mount Vernon is now more or less complete, so I've turned attention to Priesthill and Darnley.



The station was pretty easy to do as it's a very basic station in real-life. As usual the pic is a tight-in shot as there's no depth to the scenery.

I now need to extend the depth of scenery and then re-work the scenery near Kennishead, which was the original end of the line.

Hopefully have this stretch completed next week so I'll get some decent pics then if anyone's interested.

Niall

Hi Niall
It's looking good and look forward to running the new Sprinters,and Emu's on your route and maybe Justin's 47's and Parcels stock.

Mike

Me Too!
Cheers
Andy

I'm aiming for the cheekiest comment of the day!

I note the billboard sign saying UK TrainSim in the background, and wondered whether a TrainSimSafeHouse billboard was available!

Brought about by my frustration with the sound for the 101s. I'm looking to revert back to the early Class_101_Sound file that I used in my original uploads.

Alec

PS The route continues to impress, and I shall be driving on it when I retire along with all of the other routes I've set up.

A while back Kerr gave me permission to use anything out of the old Scottish Central and it was in it. It's the only billboard I have but if someone could make a good one for this site, I'd use it. Have to be good quality though to keep up with the route!

mikehendle wrote:Hi Niall
It's looking good and look forward to running the new Sprinters,and Emu's on your route and maybe Justin's 47's and Parcels stock.

Mike

andrew moody wrote:Me Too!
Cheers
Andy

rufuskins wrote:
PS The route continues to impress, and I shall be driving on it when I retire along with all of the other routes I've set up.

Cheers guys. I'm at that point now where I'm worrying whether it'll be good enough. Last time I only had the scenery to be concerned about but this time I laid the track as well, so hoping it is received well!

Hi Niall,
Looking at your screenshots it looks much more than good enough,in fact it's 1st class,there isn't any thing wrong with you track laying in the screen shots.
Mike

mikehendle wrote:Hi Niall,
Looking at your screenshots it looks much more than good enough,in fact it's 1st class,there isn't any thing wrong with you track laying in the screen shots.
Mike

Hear Hear!
Cheers
Andy.

Trust me, the bigger the route gets, the more you stress about it.

You know someone will come along and say that a certain gradient is wrong or shouldn't be there etc etc, not realising I learnt from scratch as I went along! That said, there were things I had to get wrong. For example, Glasgow Queen Street Low Level was moved a few hundred metres as it was originally was on the tile where Glasgow Central is and there's too much on that tile already! I positioned another station in the wrong place but it was still the correct distance from the previous station! However, I'm now experienced enough that if I ever extend from there, the next station along will be in the right place.

The North Clyde line is not as accurate as the extensions south and east of Glasgow, but it was my first attempt and not only were some gradients guesswork but I had to link it to the junctions near Bellgrove and Finnieston that were in V2/3. I just could not find the info I needed. I'm grateful every station from Duke Street to Partick was built by sundaypm and you are in for a treat when you finally get to try it. The later extensions are all where they should be and the gradients more realistic because I got the info I needed, plus I've got better as I've learned.

That said, there were a few stations incorrectly placed when David had the route, but I've managed to work around them and I have been able to sort some of the problems that were in V2 and V3, such as a number of places where the track wasn't smooth, I've been able to correct them now.

While I had no plans to go along the Ayr line, I was able to rip up the turn-off at Paisley and lay it more accurately so it's now where it should be. What it means is that if I or someone else wanted to do the Ayr line, they could start in the right place. Plus I'm proud of how I managed to finally improve the Paisley area as I just wasn't happy with my efforts for V3. The same goes for the Whifflet turn-off in which I had to rip up the entire track in order to lay the correct track up Carmyle and Mount Vernon. It's quite nice driving a loaded coal train up those gradients (not!).

It means there will be broken paths and a quite a few V3 acts won't work on V4 unless the paths are re-done, but I think people won't mind because every change I've done has been to improve the route.

Niall

PS Damn, that answer was longer than I had planned!

Compromise has been and remains the name of the "simulation"!
To use a biblical quote:-
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!"
Alec

Although there's still plenty of work to do in the Glasgow area, once I find out whether the track changes I've made around Glasgow Central have worked, I'll be on the lookout for a small band of testers to start putting the route through its paces. If all goes well, I could start the testing at the end of the month and it would continue until the route is complete -- whenever that is.

Ideally, I'm after people who have proved in the past they know what needs to be done when testing a route and I will tend to choose people I've worked with before and know I can trust. Top of my list will be anyone who worked on the previous version.

V3 was released without any issues or need for patches and I'm determined to make sure V4 will be the same.

If you think you're up for it, drop me a PM telling me why you should be chosen, and if you're successful, I'll be in touch when testing is about to begin.

Niall

Well, I've tested the track changes and all seems ok, so I've downed tools for the moment (heading off for a break) and sending out a copy those who successfully applied for testing duties, plus a couple of others who help me.

If there's anyone who fancies making some low poly buildings/backdrops for the Glasgow Central area, please get in touch, I'd love your help.

Niall

What am I working on?

Absolutely nothing.   My last XP PC is broken. Won't boot up and I've put in a call to see if I can get it repaired.

As well as a lot of important personal stuff, all my MSTS stuff is on it.

The route has not been worked on since I sent it to testers so I can recover that from the upload site, but all my important research material is on the PC and I need to see if I can get it saved. Plus, I'll have to find a way to finish off the route...

Keep your fingers crossed...

Niall
Sorry to hear about that. Hopefully it can be repaired or at least the internal HD can be rescued!      
Alec

NiallGray wrote:What am I working on?

Absolutely nothing.   My last XP PC is broken. Won't boot up and I've put in a call to see if I can get it repaired.

As well as a lot of important personal stuff, all my MSTS stuff is on it.

The route has not been worked on since I sent it to testers so I can recover that from the upload site, but all my important research material is on the PC and I need to see if I can get it saved. Plus, I'll have to find a way to finish off the route...

Keep your fingers crossed...

Sorry to hear Niall,
How about this as a plan of action? Set the old Hard drive as a slave and get another hard drive and get another Operating System installed on it. As always I am more than willing to help as this is my background at the end of the day....
Cheers
Andy

Hi Niall.
My windows XP did excactly the same thing just over a twelve month ago, the hard drive turned up its toes, looks like that is what has happened to yours.
My repair shop was able to rescue everything off of the failed hard drive including pictures that I had taken in Canada only a month earlier.
I subsequently invested in an external hard drive which has more than twice the capacity of the HD in the computer.
So Fingers crossed you hopefully should br OK.
Cheers
Andy

My neighbour's son works in IT and has spent last couple of evenings working on it.

The drive is knackered and there's some other problem, but he's got it going for the moment, so hopefully I'll be able to save all my MSTS stuff, including my research material.

However, the priority is all my work and personal stuff as he doesn't think it'll be working much longer, so that's what I'm backing up first.

I've got a W7 machine that I will try to finish the route on, but for some reason I can't get it RE working on it (the game will load ok however). However, I'll try and cross that bridge when I'm back working on the route. I'm sure the answer to that one will lie on the forums.

It's amazing how stressful a broken PC can be!

Hi Niall,
Good to hear you can see light at the end of the tunnel!

Regarding Windows 7 - just keep MSTS away from the Program Files / Program Files (x86) folders and you should be all right.
There are many of us using Win7 without problem; earlier this year I was having a go at creating a route, so I know RE works OK!

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ged,

It's not placed in that (x86) folder, it's in its own location. So I got something right!  

In RE I'm getting 0-1 fps. I thought it might be the sound file issue as a search on UKTS showed me that you needed to have a sound file placed on the start tile for it to work. So far no joy with placing sound markers. The downside to when I do get it working is there's no proper graphics card on that machine and so I'll have to built the route getting the weird graphics that was outlined in the linked thread. But I'm in no hurry as I'm waiting until Sundaypm has finished helping me with the Glasgow re-work before I get back to work on the route.

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?f=273&t=121996&hilit=graphics

It's about time I switched over to the W7 machine as I bought it 18 months ago as the XP machine was on its way out then, but I couldn't bear to part with the XP way of doing things!

The good news is I've managed to save all my MSTS stuff, so I've learnt my lesson and backed it all up on the W7 machine, and also copied it onto an external hard-drive.

Well, it turns out the sound region thing worked in the end on the W7 machine. I tried a number of sound sources with no joy, and then I used "city - larger - older design" and the FPS shot up to 60!

So, when it comes time to work on the route, I will be able to carry on (unless I break this one as well!). In the meantime, I can get back to re-skinning work and also work on some acts for V4.

I'm going to try and see if my XP machine can be fixed as I feel lost without it.

Well, it's been almost 2 months since I downed tools on the route, but I'm up and running again following holidays and pc woes.

The testers are looking at the route for me and making their lists which they will be sending next week so I can compile one big list and look at what they've found.

But for now, I'm using the excuse of a free morning to do a little more scenery re-working on the main line. The reason being is the amount of the good feedback on the re-worked Lockerbie to Carlisle section and the fact a few people would like to do acts between Glasgow and Carlisle. With that in mind, I'm trying to re-work a little more of the line while I can.

Pics of a short extension to Baillieston for those who are interested. Link takes you to UKTS.

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=122529&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=36

Niall

There ain't no stopping you now! Those shots show your usual high standard of work. Thank you.

Thanks Alec.

It was meant to take me a while so I could have something to distract me while I wait for testing feedback, but I ended up doing a few marathon sessions in RE and it's almost done!

I don't think there's any more scope for extensions in V4, no matter which direction I go (and there's plenty to choose from!). Seems whichever direction I fancy extending there's a problem, mostly that I can't replicate the stations myself.

I'll keep looking though!