Actober

Hi Everyone,

As Niall has mentioned the idea on UKTS (see this link: http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?f=238&t=132812 ) I thought it would be a good idea to start getting this organised now (3 months in advance).

How do you guys think this should be done?
Are there any specific limitations that you would like put in place?

My thought on this is that I would like to see a dedicated stock pack/stock packs developed so that to run the activities you only need to download “one” stock pack and you would be set to go for all the activities that use that pack. There could be a prelude in September where the leading modellers could come together to develop the stock packs in readiness for the Actober event?

What do you guys think?

Justin

That sounds like a brilliant idea,   I always find that activities that require a big list of stock to hunt down is a bit offputting at the very least, for some people it would be a barrier, so a stock pack would be ideal.

Hi Justin and everyone!
Sounds like a fantastic idea to me! If that is the case would you like me to save my DEMU for release with an activity pack for UKTS until October or shall I still release for download prior to getting this idea off the ground?  
I think we can do a dedicated Activity for LSE route with the DEMU's most definitely.
Cheers
Andy

I believe that this is a great idea to continue the MSTS promotion started by the June 2013 event. The idea of a related stock pack is also a good one, but of course may require a fair amount of permission seeking?

All I can say is "to me this would probably be a lifeline",just this weekend I have failed in upgrading my Lydbrook Junction #1 up to  #3,once again leading to an uninstall / install of MSTS.I've also failed to install Westvale,though I did get the  Lyme Regis branch (Route Only) to appear,so at least I could explore it with 4405 (GWR) and 2 coaches.

Hi Roger,
You've probably seen elsewhere in this, and other Forums, that it's very rarely necessary to uninstall / re-install MSTS. This is not the thread to discuss it, so please create another, probably under General, if you think you need to do it again!!

Cheers,
Ged

How are you Ged,,Yes I did get carried away my post was intended to be just about how it would be a great way for me to move on should this go forward,I do get carried away with myself though,I will have to think twice before voicing an opinion again,regards Roger.

Hi Roger,

I will have to think twice before voicing an opinion again

No, please don't do that - we all like to read others opinions!
On re-reading my post, I'm sorry that it did sound a little like an order - it wasn't intended that way  

Cheers,
Ged

Roger
Whilst this is slightly off topic I am trying to put together a HFL part that looks at installing a route, and in particular Lydbrook Junction.
I hope that this may be of help to both you and others.

This sounds like an excellent idea.

How are we anticipating this to be run?
Is it likely to be a sort of "challenge" style event with users given a route & selection of stock and then have to come up with a nice interesting activity?
Or are we going to have free rein to create whatever we like for wherever we like?

Does anybody want to speak to the likes of Making Tracks to see if they're willing to contribute a model or 2 to this as an "exclusive" to gain some further interest?

gswindale wrote:This sounds like an excellent idea.

How are we anticipating this to be run?
Is it likely to be a sort of "challenge" style event with users given a route & selection of stock and then have to come up with a nice interesting activity?
Or are we going to have free rein to create whatever we like for wherever we like?

Does anybody want to speak to the likes of Making Tracks to see if they're willing to contribute a model or 2 to this as an "exclusive" to gain some further interest?

I think that approaching Making Tracks would be a fab idea, If no one has any objections I can delve into what we are all planning to do and see if they would like to help us out and get involved. Maybe they could co-incide their previous idea of their 'Free Stock Friday' in order to revive MSTS. They've been pretty quiet of late though. This makes me think they may have something up their sleeves... Well lets hope they have.

Hi Everyone,

Well I’m glad this got things going.

To clarify a few ideas that I mentioned:
The idea behind the stock pack was for a dedicated set of models to be produced for the pack rather than just “grabbing” existing ones from the file library, so that needing to get permission for the models would not be required, as it would be made exclusively for the pack. The stock in the stock pack could be used on any route. The only grey area would be cabviews and sounds.

The “challenge” if you like would be to create realistic activities to run. Not that I am complaining about running an express train through lovely scenery in bright sunshine, but how about a few of the “rougher” services that had to be run? Say for example (in the worst service scenario): a long and above load limit coal train; in the early to mid-evening; in torrential rain; in early winter; with a sickly, elderly freight engine with an open cab? Not exactly everyone’s idea of a fun trip, I know, but think out the satisfaction you would get from wrestling this service to its destination.

Whilst on a train trip to a doctor’s appointment (my preferred Doc is 1hr away from where I live by train) I got thinking about what could be put into the stock pack:

1) A dedicated set of Mk1’s (no coach numbers [blasphemy ] so as not to be region restricting) both Non-corridor Suburban and Corridor Stock would need to be made. As I already have the base Mk1 shapes from previous projects I would be quite willing to hand these over to someone who wishes to take on this part of the Stock Pack.

2) A range of locomotive classes, both steam and diesel and DMU/DEMU, that were seen all over the BR network. I know that Britannia’s, 9F’s, Gronk’s, Class 20’s and 101’s tended to get around quite a fair bit, any other suggestions? The idea would be that the classes would be from around the transition era (including before and after) with a few pre-BR liveries for specials.

3) A suitable set of freight wagons, old looking and grubby so that any previous owner’s paintwork cannot be seen (like the un-numbered coaches, so as to not be region specific).

This is just purely my thoughts on the subject, I am not saying this is how it should be done, I’m just putting an idea out there.

Justin

Oh dear! Let me put a pessimistic view forward.

I think the idea of Actober is an excellent one as the creation and upload of activities has been relatively quiet until the recent June event. Despite my earlier comments I believe that tying this in with stock packs could prove a disincentive, and I would prefer that the main aim of Actober should be the creation of a multitude of activities ranging from relatively simple to relatively complicated. It is essential that the activity writer must ensure that a detailed stock list is provided including all relevant download site locations, and where it is based on proprietary stock an alternative freeware list should be provided.

However I do subscribe to the idea of developing MSTS stock packs but that involves a lot of work just to achieve the necessary permissions, and I am not sure that this could be achieved within the above time frame. I also support Justin's idea of creating a dedicated stock pack based on new models but again the time frame for the above would be tight.

In summary I suggest that we concentrate on the activity side of Actober along the lines noted above, and then consider the development of MSTS stock packs for a later date and these could either be route or era specific. A number of the recent and potentially upcoming routes released as CDs/DVDs already come complete with their own stock pack.

I have discussed the stock pack idea with Geoffrey and we may be able to flesh out his ideas soon.

While I'm glad to see the idea has legs, I'm afraid that with Glas-Car getting closer to a finished state, I will be unable to contribute.

I'll support it, but I just won't have the time to take part.  

Hi Justin

For stock packs most BR Standards could be seen on all regions,except the Clans,they were Scottish Region Loco's,the Southern are the exception,they seem to have used fewer Standards Mainly class 4 and 5 MT,and class 2 and 4T Tank loco's

Mike

NiallGray wrote:While I'm glad to see the idea has legs, I'm afraid that with Glas-Car getting closer to a finished state, I will be unable to contribute.

I'll support it, but I just won't have the time to take part.   

Surely your main focus should be on completing G-C V4 to give us a quality route for which activities could be created by others. Perhaps I could try an activity that uses SICs/126s on G-C V3?  

Having never created an activity it would need to be simple, but big oak trees from little acorns do grow!  

Hi All,

Not to come across as arrogant, but I believe that by combining the activities with a dedicated stock pack would encourage more people to download the activities as only one download would be required for the stock. I know that I have looked at activities in the past and have been put off by the fact that they need around 30 new downloads just to get the activity to load. A simple “one stop shop” for the stock would make life easier. (Imagine 20 activities all requiring 15 unique downloads each, that is 300 different items that would need to be individually located).

It is the same thinking behind my suggestion to use “standard designs” for the engines, as they could be seen all over the network without being limited to what could be achieved without limiting operational interest. (Thanks for the clarification on this Mike, although a 9F on Southern Metals is an interesting idea). As for creating “new models”, as simple dedicate rename/renumber of the engines for the pack would ease production time. The biggest hurdle would come from getting everything combined in one area for packaging.

Niall, you have already made your “contribution” for Actober by simply coming up with the idea.

I will be giving this some more thought to try and clarify the ideas further and try to make it more achievable.

Justin

Justin
If we can get a stock pack together all well and good, but it either needs to be said that activities for Actober must use whatever stock is within that pack, or activity creators will need to submit the proposed stock for their activity for inclusion.
I was thinking of trying my hand at an activity for Glasgow-Carlisle V3/V4 that would make use of either my FG DMU SICs or my FG DMU Class 126s, which are not really a global stock.
I'm not deliberately trying to be awkward, and I hope that when the stock pack idea is fleshed out then my concerns will dissappear; i.e. a general stock pack that covers a number of eras and areas plus a much smaller number of one-off downloads?

Hi all,
Could maybe some of us whom have done some repaints or currently in the process of creating a model currently, maybe give authorisation that these go into the stock pack? i.e, Alec maybe doing a NSE DMU and me currently working on my Hastings DEMU and Justin last 'Mail by Rail' Pack could maybe go into an activity on the LSE Route? Just as an example guys? I would give authorisation as I think this is a great idea and I am pretty sure Justin would give authorisation as well.....
Thanks
Andy
:Edit: - What I am saying is basically I think for this to take off is that everyone needs to be laid back and I can't/don't imagine that there is a single individual out there who isn't? After all it is for the benefit of everyone else.  

Firstly here's a link to a suggestion by Steve Dearne on UKTS with respect to this idea and future ideas

http://forums.atomic-systems.com/viewtopic.php?f=238&t=108727&p=1650293&sid=19f053e271e5b368dd3f32e0a40d7851#p1650252

Andy
I have no problem with any of my FG DMU repaints going into a stock pack, but to repeat myself how many are to go in? The current RD has 105 entries and therefore the scope for activities is immense, and that's probably an understatement!
However the idea of era/area specific stock packs as initially proposed by Geoffrey is excellent, and I am behind that 100%. One could also do Shed stock packs for specific years; e.g. all the steam locomotives for a shed in a year as detailed in Hugh Longworth's allocation book, and that would be relevant to a particular route location and era. Similarly for diesels, electrics and multiple units.

Thanks guys, I'm sure the idea will be in good hands.

To throw in my two-penny worth........why do you need new stock packs? Why not just write activities for those completed routes that already have stock included? Most commercial routes have stock included, and so do many of the UKTS CD's. I feel sure owners of LSE, Thames-Mersey etc would welcome new activities.

It's a fairly short time to October and yet new models can often take a month or more to make, so potential contributors will be putting themselves immediately under pressure.

Or have I missed something here?

I managed to contribute to " June Month" but - like Niall - this has come at the wrong time for me to take part, but best wishes to those that do.

dee4141 wrote:To throw in my two-penny worth........why do you need new stock packs?  Why not just write activities for those completed routes that already have stock included?   Most commercial routes have stock included, and so do many of the UKTS CD's.  I feel sure owners of LSE, Thames-Mersey etc would welcome new activities.

It's a fairly short time to October and yet new models can often take a month or more to make, so potential contributors will be putting themselves immediately under pressure.

Or have I missed something here?

I managed to contribute to " June Month" but - like Niall - this has come at the wrong time for me to take part, but best wishes to those that do.

 

Danny,

You have a fair point there, I've found that acts with little or no downloads do go down well. I do like the stock pack Idea but over a long period to keep pressure down on contributors.

bharrison wrote:You have a fair point there, I've found that acts with little or no downloads do go down well. I do like the stock pack Idea but over a long period to keep pressure down on contributors.

I also agree with this point of view.

______________
David

Hi All,

As an activity writer I have a few observations to make:-
1 when using a "Commercial Route" or a community cd I try to stick mainly to the stock included,
2 when using other routes I build up a core selection of stock so that after 2 or 3 activities very few extra stock items are required ( as in my BrisCard activities ) but the full stock list is included for each activity for those who don't have my earlier ones and as a check for those who do,
3 all downloads I use are "as is" ie, no modification of .eng or .wag files are needed which includes cabview and sound files ,
4 in consideration of those on lower incomes and those who don't want to use payware items I only use freeware stock items,
5 checking what downloads that are required is much, much easier if the download list is in NUMERICAL order - I have a download list folder for that very purpose,

6 I like the idea of stock packs - should they be regional and era orientated? - if I'm making a hydraulic era Briscard activity I don't need modern Scottish Region stock - obvious, I suppose, but needs to be said.

Finally, for Actober I am willing to receive requests for activities if given suffient notice - does anybody like this idea? otherwise I will think up something new.

regards,

Stephen

Hi Stephen'
I can think of one route that cries out for some activities and that is Scottish Central+,It has it's  own dedicated stock,you have four routes to choose from Dunbar via Waverley to Dundee, Waverley to either Perth or Dundee, Waverley to Glasgow Queen St,Queen St to Perth,and finally Edinburgh Princes St to Glasgow Central

Mike

Stephen, some activities for the recently updated "Semaphore" version of Thams Mersey would be interesting.  They could use the stock in Pat Dalton's LMS Stock Pack, perhaps with some of the more recent coaches substituted.

---------------
David

My one observation from having found time to read the entire thread is maybe you're all right and you're all wrong at the same time.

One of the reasons I feel June Month was so successful was that it allowed people to do whatever they wanted to do, they weren't forced into one area. It meant we ended up with such a variety of items and it meant there was something for everyone. We could just contribute what we wanted to do.

I feel it should be the same way with activities. If someone wants to do the odd act, then let them. If a few folk want to get together and create an act pack then it's fine. Same if folk get together and want to do an act and stock pack.

You can spend so long deciding what format to follow and then run out of time to get anything done, so I would urge you to do as you see fit and go with it. Those who want to do a stock pack, why not speak to each other and see if there's common ground so you can work together (ie era). Besides, at the end of the day it's just a hobby and we don't get paid for doing what we do, so freedom of choice is crucial.

Something I would like to bring to the table is that with so long until October, how about starting a thread over on UKTS, encouraging newbies to join in, or perhaps those who have been around longer, but have no experience of acts? They can put all their questions in that thread and between us, we can all check it at least once a week and try to answer any questions they have about creating their acts. I always found act writing the easiest part of content creation and perhaps we could end up persuading more people to join in.

Anyhow, that's all I want to say, I should really be enjoying my break, not sitting on a computer!   Good luck with whatever you do, but please bear in mind what I've said.

Niall

Niall's thinking matches comments made in one of my earlier posts to this thread.

rufuskins wrote:I think the idea of Actober is an excellent one as the creation and upload of activities has been relatively quiet until the recent June event. Despite my earlier comments I believe that tying this in with stock packs could prove a disincentive, and I would prefer that the main aim of Actober should be the creation of a multitude of activities ranging from relatively simple to relatively complicated. It is essential that the activity writer must ensure that a detailed stock list is provided including all relevant download site locations, and where it is based on proprietary stock an alternative freeware list should be provided.

References have been made to Actober on UKTs but not in a specific thread - would someone other than me like to post accordingly?

Hi Alec
I have just put a post on UKTS about Actoberfest,I put it in the general MSTS discussion page,as I thought more people are likely to read it there,than on the activity page.

I just hope I haven't made it to long or worded it incorrectly.

Mike

Hi Mike & David,

Thanks for a quick reply, both are valid routes which as you say desperately need activities and I don't have either! I think that Scottish Central+ will be one for which I will write some activities simply because I don't have any Scottish Routes, but I do have routes which cover most other areas. It also means that, as Mike said, a dedicated stock pack isn't required. I am, of course, still open to other suggestions but please give me plenty of notice. As other activity writers know a good activity takes time to create and test to make sure all runs as it should ( and I still don't always get it right especially with the required stock ). I do also have a thing called work which interferes with my rest days, a wife and a dog also making demands on my time. I won't be able to get much done in September so most will have to be done in the next 6 weeks or so.

regards,

Stephen

Not sure about the "-fest" suffix at the end, don't want people thinking it's German activities only or a drinking game!  

We'd already agreed on 'Actober' so it's best to leave it as that as otherwise it just gets confusing.

'

Hi Niall,

I have asked one of the UKTS moderators to change the heading to Actober sorry about the mistake blame the hot weather,to tell you the truth this heat is making me ill breathing and memory problems.

Mike

StephenRWells wrote: . . .a wife and a dog also making demands on my time . . . .

Tell me about it!!!! Although never quite sure which one is pack leader?

What's even worse is a Girlfriend and 2 female cats
Mike

Mike,

Don't worry about it, your enthusiasm for the idea is greatly appreciated.

I'll draft a couple of threads for UKTS a little later on when I get time. They will help get the ball rolling over there.

This is my official launch post over at UKTS.

Mike, thanks for allowing me to re-do it.

Fellow MSTS simmers, get ready for Actober!

Following on from the fantastic success of 'June is MSTS Month', which saw a huge surge in content being uploaded for MSTS, we've decided to run another initiative.

Going for a slight pun, we decided on Actober, an idea to increase the number of activity-related uploads during the month of October.

We'd love you to take part whether or not you have any experience in writing activities. For those who have never tried the content creation side of things, it's actually a very good entry point.

After much discussion of how Actober could work, the simplest option is to use the same idea as in June and leave people to contribute how they want to.

You could decide to upload an act or two from various routes, you might go down the route of writing an activity pack for a specific route, or perhaps try to provide an activity and stock pack all in one. It's absolutely your choice.

There's a thread over at https://tsforum.forumotion.net/t353-actober which is already discussing the topic, but for those not registered over there, please use this thread if you want to take part.

What's this thread for? Well for many things. You can say what you'd like to contribute or perhaps suggest a route and/or era you'd like to see more acts for. Perhaps you want to contribute something but looking for like-minded individuals to team up with. Any questions, then fire away!

By launching the initiative early, it gives plenty of time for you to begin working on something and also time for any interested newbies to get some advice on how you go about writing an activity.

June Month helped breathe some life back in MSTS. We'd love to keep that momentum going and it would be great if you could join in with us.

Thank you,

Niall

A well put together summary for another MSTS promotion/event.

Well done and thank you, Alec

Hi
Just had a look on UKTS so far 93 people have had a look,but no one has made a posting,I know it's early days.

Mike

It's a long way off. June Month was a shorter timespan and more urgency, hence immediate replies.

Besides, this time it's more specific and writing acts won't be for everyone, although we hope to change that.

A while ago someone uploaded some activities on Trainsim for the default S&C.
They used a weird collection of wagons from various countries.

After looking thru the Trainsim library I realised that there were very little British wagons available and what there was was poor quality.
I decided to releasing a pack of typical steam era wagons but never got around to it.


With Actober in mind I realized such a pack would be very useful. It would provide all the wagons needed in a single download. Releasing on Trainsim as well as UKTS would make it easy to obtain.

As I have already released most common wagon types the pack will be easy to make up but all will be modified or repainted to make them different.

Should be ready in a couple of weeks.

Slightly off topic, but is it worth uploading UK stuff on Trainsim as a side event?

Alec

Wagon stockpack now uploaded to UKTS.

It contains 35 wagons representing the most common types seen throughout the UK in the steam and green diesel era.

Not sure if I will upload it to trainsim. It uses Stuart Williamson's sounds which are only available on UKTS.
Means editing over 150 .wag files which is a lot of boring work.

Hi Ian,

Thank you very much for the wagon pack, I know that I will be putting it to good use.

Justin

- ditto -

The wagon stock pack fits in well with Geoffrey's work on route based Stock Packs.

Hi all,

Progress report Actober SCP activities.

So far 3 completed, 1 on final test and others being thought about. Like my activities on other routes they might be based on a real service but ai traffic is pure imagination sticking to what might happen.

I did have a problem with trains derailing on set of points at Kirkaldy. This was solved by changing the Default Wagon to a more modern version. Has anyone else had this problem?

Also the Class 107 sound uses sounds from the Khia sound set which is not included - I have added the 1st Generation DMU Sound to my Common Sound folder as I think this is a much more realistic sound. The brakes have a max release pressure of 10.5 which means they don't release fully - changing this to 21 ( where it should be ) makes them work properly. If, by including these comments here, I am treading in somebody's toes then I apologise in advance. I intend to use this Class 107 as the player loco so a modified eng. file will need to be included. Do I need the original author's permission to do this?

regards,

Stephen

Hi Stephen,

Also the Class 107 sound uses sounds from the Khia sound set which is not included

The Khia sound set is default MSTS!! So, unless the default stock has been deleted, everybody will have it.

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ged,

"The Khia sound set is default MSTS!! So, unless the default stock has been deleted, everybody will have it."

True, but this is not the case with the SCP Mini Route - the Khia Folder is completely missing as are the eng and wag files for Pendennis and Scotsman. I could have copied the Khia over but, as I said earlier, I think the 1st Gen Dmu sound set is much better.

Regards,

Stephen

Hi Stephen

If you intend to alter anything in the loco that you intend to upload as part of the act, you do need the original author's permission before you can upload it.

Hi Stephen,
Firstly, apologies for my mistake regarding the Kiha  

Secondly, in my SCP mini-route, the Scotsman and Pendennis folders are complete! That seems a little odd, unless, when you set up your SCP Mini-Route, your 'normal' MSTS installation had been 'optimised' by Train Store to run a particular activity?

Cheers,
Ged