Help trying to track down some old diesel favourites

Hello all, this is my first post on the forum and I’m hoping someone can assist. I’m trying to track down some old payware CDs that have long since past into the illustrious history of MSTS.

I know many of you are raising an eyebrow thinking why bother when there are so many good modern rail sims on offer. I don’t doubt, but since installing OpenRails is has given new life to the old sim and out of nostalgia I was hoping to rekindle the old girl, as I have some fond memories of MSTS as part of my youth (actually.... it gives quite a credible result running on windows 11 on my laptop, even by today’s standards!).

The payware CDs in question was produced as a fund raiser for the Class 15 Preservation Society.

CD 1. ‘Noisy and Smelly’. A compilation of BTH Type 1 diesels

CD 2. ‘Claytons’. A compilation of Class 17 diesels

Alas, the items are no longer available from the Society shop as time and people have moved on from MSTS. I have tried contacting the society admin hoping they might have a dusty copy lurking on a shelf somewhere but no joy. I’ve tried Ebay and other shops but to no avail.

If any body has the above CDs (either or both), then I would be happy to buy them at a generous price and cover all postage costs.

Hope someone can come up with the goods!

Hi,
Welcome to the TSSH Forums
Could we have a more friendly name, please?

I can see your problem! I'm sure many of us have those particular CDs, but, speaking for myself, I won't be getting rid of them, until my demise (which, I hope, isn't any time soon!!)

A few years ago, I collected some MSTS CDs from two members of UKTS who had moved away from MSTS.  I offered these CDs through the Forum at UKTS and most found new homes.  Although the two you mentioned weren't included, I do still have the 'Baby Deltics' from the same company; the label is a bit tatty but I've made a note that the disk seems to be OK.  If it's of any use to you, you are welcome to it for the cost of its postage - I will, of course, recheck it before I send it!

Cheers,
Ged

Hi slipperman12,
thanks for the very generous offer on the baby deltics and coming back so quick. I think I'll pass on that, but it does give me a glimmer of hope knowing that others might have other CDs from the Class 15 preservation society. It's the Clayton Class 17 that I'm particularly interested in. The Class never had an auspicious career with BR but their appearance is appealing.

Hi,
That's OK, mate
I hope you find what you're looking for!
Latterly, combinations of CDs from the Class 15 Preservation Society were available from UKTS; they might well have contained the two packs you're after.  
Checking the Wayback Machine doesn't give access to the CD Ordering page so, sorry, I can't help any more.

Cheers,
Ged

Thanks Ged, i did try the Wayback machine to find the few Claytons that were available on the site for download. I think I have everything that was on offer but they were all early models and not particularly detailed. The ones from the Class 15 preservation society were bespoke models and are really very good by MSTS standards. Hopefully someone will have a CD somewhere or copy on a hard drive. I'll be happy to forward a USB stick to anyone who might be able to make a copy and pay for their trouble. Once again, thanks for your input.
Regards. Chris

Hi Chris,
Sorry, mate, but to make a copy of a CD, or its contents, and send it to you would be against all copyright rules.  Also, it's probably against the rules of this site to even ask for such - if not, it's definitely against the spirit of this site..

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ged,
Your quite right sir, my apologies for letting my enthusiasm in obtaining the Claytons run away with me. I fully respect copyright law and fully understand your comment and the spirit in which it was given. I hope someone can come up with an original cd.
Regards. Chris

People sometime get caught up on the letter of the law vs the intent.

I'd think if you could make the required donation to the Society, copying someone else's CD would still be honouring intent....

HI Eric,
That may well be an acceptable approach
I have emailed the Treasurer of the Class 15 Preservation Society, putting that proposal to him.  He might not give his approval due to the fact that a number of different authors were involved in creating content for the various CDs issued by the Society.

The site address :  http://www.d8233.org.uk/

Cheers,
Ged

Thanks Ged and Eric for your input. I'm not familiar with the finer detail of copyright but I understand the need to protect the right of ownership both physical and intellectual. I would be very happy to donate to the Class 15 preservation society for whatever cost would be deemed appropriate to cover the' Claytons' Class 17 CD, if thats a fair and equitable solution. I hope you get a reply from the societies Treasurer Ged. If we get a green light then I suppose it's down to finding someone withe an original CD?
I'll wait to hear from you.
Regards. Chris

If the authors submitted their work to better the society's goals, there really should be no conflict.

I've done several donationware projects, and would have no qualms about someone taking this same approach with my work if it were no longer available for distribution.

Hi Chris,
I have now received the following reply :

Hi Ged,
I have passed your message onto Chris Baily who was the person who produced the CD's back then.
If you don’t hear back after a few days then I don’t have an issue with you sending a copy elsewhere. Feel free to make a donation as you see fit - bank details are on the website
Cheers
Tim
Treasurer

I'll leave it until the end of this week to give time for Chris Baily to reply.

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Chris,
I've received a further email from Tim :

Ok Ged

Also apparently there are a number of unsold CD's still at Bury that have been stored in the workshop coach. I've asked the chairman to let me know what they have and we will make them available on the website at some point.

tim

That being so, I will hang fire for now and let you know as soon as I have more information.

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ged,
Thank you so much for sorting this. This is fantastic news, not just for me but for many others I'm sure. I hope the 'Claytons' are amongst those stored!

Best regards. Chris

Hi Chris,
Yes, mate, I hope so!
If it's not, I will continue to seek permission to share any which are no longer available.

I believe I have all the original CDs (but not the 'combination' disks latterly available from UKTS).

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Chris,
If you go to http://www.d8233.org.uk/shop.htm, you will see a 'Coming Soon' notice for the 'Noisy & Smelly' CD !!
I don't know how 'soon' it will be but at least we've got a good initial response

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ged,
Fantastic, just bought the CD from the Class 15 Preservation Society. Thanks so much for your help Ged, this is a great result. Sorry for the delayed response, but I just got back from hospital, unfortunately my progressing MND means I'm less active now but on the upside I have more time for train simming! Hopefully a copy of the 'Claytons' might resurface at some point, that would be the icing on the cake!
Best regards. Chris

Hi Chris,
Today, I have received another email :

Hi Ged,

We had a committee meeting last night. We will be making pretty much all of the MSTS stuff available again shortly. It will be sold on USB sticks.

I’ll let you know when the webpage is active.

Tim

The choice of medium is understandable as, these days, not many PCs come with CD/DVD drives, but I'm a little concerned about the cost especially if only one product is on each USB stick.

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT : In response to a question, I received this reply from Tim :

...and there will also be an option to purchase all available packs on one stick. We are thinking around £5 plus P&P for most of the single packs.

Hi All,
I have now received this email from Tim :

Hi Ged,

Sorry for the delay on this. The MSTS stuff is now available to order. All pretty self explanatory on this link.

http://www.d8233.org.uk/msts.htm

Your help in publicising this is much appreciated. All proceeds go towards the loco.

cheers

Tim

You can purchase the individual packs for £5 +p&p or all of the packs plus North Wales Coast 1 for £25 +p&p
The only missing item I've noticed is that North Wales Coast v2 isn't included, but I believe that was created by Making Tracks and wasn't available from this site (but I could be wrong!)

Cheers,
Ged

Sad, but I haven't got the first N Wales Coast, it's a terrible shame as I did have on my old (very old) PC.

Hi Roger,
You can get the North Wales Coast 1 for £10 +p&p. from the website,

Part 2 added, basically, the branch to Blaenau Ffestiniog.

Cheers,
Ged

Hello Ged, I want to buy it, but am confused.

It States ;
This pack requires that you have our first NW Coast add on installed, It will not work without it ?
And as you know I only now run in OR, but think it will run ok,  Confused Caveman, Neanderthal.

P.S my browser is telling me "NOT TO ENTER CREDIT CARD DETAILS" site is unsecure.
So I'll have to order it by Post ?

PPS. Sadly I will not be able to order it as I refuse to use Paypal,

Hi Roger,
Sorry, I missed that paragraph!!
But it doesn't make sense - It is North Wales Coast 1 and, as far as I am aware, there wasn't a previous version.
I think that whoever prepared that screen copy & pasted the 'Installation' paragraph referring to NWC2.

I have sent Tim a message asking about NWC2 so will see what he says.

Paypal?  I use it wherever I can because I think it offers an extra level of security.  Whenever I use it, it sends a text message to my nominated number containing a PIN which I have to enter as part of the purchasing procedure.
I've only ever had one problem where what I ordered didn't arrive and, after reporting it, Paypal refunded me.

Having said that, I ordered the complete pack a couple of days ago and, up to now, haven't received the promised email.  I'll leave it until the beginning of next week and if I've still not heard anything, will raise it with the site.  I'll keep this thread updated.

Cheers,
Ged

It's a shame that there is no direct (safe) link to their shop (not using PP) as I'd buy it in a moment (just in time for my Birthday)
Ged I have to ask but did you not get the warning that the site was  unsafe ? or is it Ok to ignore ?

Hi Roger,
I don't get that message when accessing d8233.org.uk - It could be from your AV.  Don't you use Norton?
However, if you used Paypal, your credit card details would only go on their site.

I've advised Tim of the error in the  'Installation' paragraph on the website - he will fix it.

Cheers,
Ged

Thanks for that Ged, No I dont use Norton (though I did used to ride one)
I only use Defender (and Malwarebytes once a Month)..

Anyway I went on d8233.org.uk Face book page and wrote to them.They came back with I can pay by Bank Transfer and just send them an Email saying that is what I have done, tell them what I want to order and give them my Name and Address.
The Email I can do, and my Son will come over to do the Bank Transfer from my Phone...so hopefully a win win situation....Roger

Ged about your previous post dated June 21st,Rufus to the Rescue.

Neanderthal

Hi Roger,
Thanks for your message, but I don't know what you're referring to!!

I do have the original NWC and NWC2 CDs from d8233.org.uk together with NWC2 subsequently available from UKTS. The one shown in your screenshot is the UKTS version although I think both may be the same.

Cheers,
Ged

I was referring to this where you wrote The only missing item I've noticed is that North Wales Coast v2 isn't included, but I believe that was created by Making Tracks and wasn't available from this site"
But maybe I misunderstood what you meant.

Hi Roger,
Ah! Now I understand - age must be getting to me!!

Making Tracks was involved in the making of both parts AND, as I discovered, NWC2 was available from d8233.org.uk.

I hope I've not confused things even more!!

Cheers,
Ged

Many thanks for that Ged. As it happens my Son popped in today and ordered it using (of all things) PayPal. He's had confirmation from them that the order has been placed, so I will be watching out for the Postman with eager anticipation.
A good run along the North Wales Coast will be great...

Hi All,
I received my data-stick containing all the available MSTS items today from d8233.org.uk.

I've only installed the NWC1 route and all went without a hitch.  This new version only includes Patches 3 and 4 whereas Chris Baily also issued patches 5 (which included patches 1-4), 6 and 7 through the UKTS library. I've mentioned this to Tim and will await his reply.

In a previous communication with Tim, he said that they had 'found' two CDs, one with much less data than the other - he released the one with more data as NWC1.  It appears that they might also have NWC2 - I have raised this possibility with Tim.

As soon as I hear anything back, I'll report it here.

Cheers,
Ged

Hello Ged,Mine arrived today, loaded as sweet as a nut, but the first act I tried didn't bode well, but I have since done 2 other Acts and they ran fine.
I'm very pleased as I expected problems (maybe) in O.R. and am now hoping they may find Vol 2 which will also be on my to buy list' I think that would include
Blaenau Ffestiniog and maybe even Amlwch..
So a big "Diolch yn Fawr" to the boys at D8233.org...
PS...Do I have to place the two Doc Files anywhere  ?

Hello all,as is normal (well normal for me anyway) I've been beavering away between Chester and Holyhead
(to be pronounced  Holly Head (Not HOLY).All appears to run well in Open Rails except for the Act
North Wales Coast Express with Britannia 70000.On start up you are waiting for rightaway in Chester,
when an express passenger pulls into the Platform you are waiting in. Any advice would be gratefully received.
I assume I need to somehow get rid of the approaching Train ? but don't know how to do this
.
apart from that I enclose the crossing from Wales proper onto Ynys Mon

A Retro Route in Wales, what more can I ask for...

Hi Roger,
You've come across a problem which gets reported quite often when running MSTS activities in Open Rails. It's because OR doesn't deal with AI trains in quite the same way as good old MSTS does (I say 'does' because I still use the old girl!!)

The easiest solution is to remove the AI train. I appreciate that could be a bit difficult for you so will have a look at it tomorrow.

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT : Sorry, I missed your previous post!  No, you don't have to do anything with those two .doc files, except to read them, if you want.  You may not be able to if you're not running MS Word or some compatible program.

Hi Roger,
The train which is on a collision path with the Player when using Open Rails is headed by loco 45108.  It is scheduled to leave Llandudno at 09:25, heading for Crewe - Service 1A66.
I have just run the first part of this activity using MSTS and didn't see that train at all! At about 6 miles (8/9 minutes) out from Chester, the Player is passed by a train headed by 45113 which is scheduled to leave Llandudno at 09:40, en route for Chester - Service 1A41(t).

By my calculations, I think, when running MSTS, the train headed by 45108 has already passed through Chester by several minutes.  Open Rails may not be able to handle this situation!

I used my ActivityTimesChanger (available from my page in the TSSH library or as file ID 87196 from trainsim.com) to change the start time of Service 1A66 from 09:25 to 09:35 and reran the activity. Now, that service is passed by the Player about 5 minutes after leaving Chester. You MIGHT be able to change the start time of 1A66 to 09:33 but I wouldn't recommend any earlier!!

Cheers,
Ged

Once again a big thank you is in order so  THANK YOU Ged, you never cease to amaze me.

Have you run any of the Acts as yet ?  Neanderthal.

Hi Roger,
From the screenshot, I assume you were able to get out of Chester!!
I think I ran several of the activities when I first got the route, but that was few years ago!  Obviously, I'd have been using MSTS and haven't run any with Open Rails. Other activities may have similar problems with AI trains.  If you can identify the service/s not running correctly, ActivityTimesChanger can be used to adjust their starting time/s, but if you have any more problems, or are uncertain about anything, just shout!

Cheers,
Ged

Heres my Shout, but I'm not asking how to correct the issue,because I'm pretty sure it also happened on MSTS. (Not Positive though)

As you can see the reverse point does not turn Green, nor does it disappear before you go over the Red Line and the game ends.
odd or what  roger.

Hi Roger,
It would help if you could indicate which activity this is occurring in and at about what time into the activity, or what action is about to be performed.

Cheers,
Ged

Sorry Ged that was very poorly thought out by me, the act is Saturday Shopper. Its about 10 mins: into the activity where you have to run around your Train at Llandudno Junction.I've tried at least half a dozen times , but the second you get to Zero yards from the reverse point the game ends ( Ithink it says you're off Path).
I was only really wondering if you had had the same ?

Hi Roger,
Thanks, mate
I'll try it first in MSTS and then in Open Rails : It'll probably be tomorrow when I come back with my findings.

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT : Sorry, mate but there's no such activity as "Saturday Shopper"!  There is shopperspecial.act ("Shopper Special 1977") - is that the one or was it another activity from UKTS?

Yes Ged that is the one "Shopper Special 1977". Blimey I can even manage to confuse myself, sorry about that ! but I am a Cave Man Neanderthal

Hi Roger,
The activity doesn't work properly in MSTS or Open Rails!

The on-screen note which pops up when you stop at Llandudno Junction mentions that "time is of the essence".  In MSTS, the points are set incorrectly to reverse on to the coaches.  I think that may be because either the on-coming AI train or the following AI train from Llandudno has set them for itself.

An additional problem with Open Rails is that the station wait before the Player can leave Llandudno is much longer than in MSTS.  I think that, maybe, OR uses the "number of passengers" coded into the Llandudno platform to take precedence over the timetable setting,

I haven't checked which services are causing the problem at Llandudno Junction but we might be able to delay them somewhat!  Will look later today.

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Roger,
Even after applying patches 5, 6 and 7, the activity doesn't work correctly in either MSTS or Open Rails.

I think the problem is with the Player path. Even after triggering the first reverse point in Open Rails it is still indicated as "Off Path", after which I switched to 'Manual' and was able to get to trigger the second RP.
Also, after the first RP, the Emergency Brake was applied, but I don't know why!  I've got another idea, which I'll try later today!

Just for your information, patches 5, 6 and 7 were available from UKTS as file IDs 21542, 21671 and 23480 respectively and are available from trainsim.com under those numbers. Patch 5 also includes patches 1 to 4.

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT : Sorry, my idea didn't work !! I won't bore you with the details of it!

Thanks for trying Ged, I'll just erase the Act,that seems to be the best idea.
Ive downloaded patch 5  21542 thankyou, but 21671 and 23480 came up as "no file found."

Hi Roger,
Sorry about the missing files, I hadn't checked if they were there!
If you'd like them, please send me a PM with your email address and I'll get them to you.

Cheers,
Ged

So a yes or No question really.
Should I replace tsection build 38 (on North Wales Coast) with build 60, or is that not a good idea.
And if I do change it and it goes wrong can I just delete build 60 and put 38 back in ? Tia Neanderthal.

Hi Roger,
I've a feeling I've answered this question very recently!!

All tsection.dat files are backwards-compatible so it's highly unlikely you will have any problem using build #60 in place of build #38, but, if you have any doubts, you can always restore #38

Cheers,
Ged

Hello Ged, Yes I'm sure you did, but today I for some reason decided to read the (Readme) File that came with the Build 60 tsection file, and it scared me to death .
I should have known better than to look. once again Thank you for your reply.Roger