Re: Operating Turntables

dforrest Sun 12 Jun 2016, 2:43 pm

slipperman12 wrote:Hi Stephen,
Making any wagon "drivable" is OK, but it means that a special version has to be created. I think my system, using a very short invisible loco, is better in that it can be placed in a consist to make any adjacent vehicle turnable on the turntable.

I've made a very short, unpowered invisible loco with a "clear" cabview, the reverser and regulator set to zero and the brakes (engine and train) adjustable between fully released and fully applied. The latter are required so that a) when running, the brakes can be released and b) when cab swapping is required, they can be fully applied.

I'm not sure if I need permission - must carefully read any readme files! - but if not, you are welcome to a copy

Cheers,
Ged

Ged, this should be very useful for using in OR. If permissions allow, can you make it available at UKTS as an Open Rails download?

**slipperman12** Sun 12 Jun 2016, 3:01 pm

Hi David,
Yes, of course I will Smile

... but, I'll let you, and maybe others, check it out first! I know there's not much in it, but with other's input, I think there could be a lot less!! What I mean is that I've already cut some lines out of the eng file, but feel it's possible to prune some more, without affecting its viability. I have been concentrating on a steam loco, but there's no reason why I can't do the same with a diesel and, maybe, even an electric loco, and put them all in the same pack.

Cheers,
Ged

StephenRWells Sun 12 Jun 2016, 5:29 pm

Hi David and Ged,

Your solution is better than mine in that Permissions are probably not required to make it available to all but using what I have done you definitely do.
Below is what I was thinking and how I achieved my result.

Looking at it from someone whose limited knowledge of how the turntable feature works there must be a trigger which connects the loco to the turntable to enable them to turn at the same time in the same way that there is a trigger which makes the cabview change from day to night when entering a tunnel or when it gets sufficiently dark. In my experiments I have taken a GW brakevan, changed the type to Engine, including changing the file name extension to .eng. I then added the following lines:-

Engine ( GW_Bvan_AA3_Bristol_T&S
Wagon ( GW_Bvan_AA3_Bristol_T&S )
Type ( Diesel )

CabView ( blank.cvf )
)
)

I also added the relevant Cabview to the GW_BrakeVan_Pack.

The result is that you have wagon that is treated like a loco and will rotate with the turntable. As the brakevan is unable to move itself it has to be placed on the turntable with a normal loco which uncouples the brakevan and move out of the way. Switching to Manual Mode and using Alt+F9 to change the loco you are driving the turntable will rotate including the brakevan. Once rotation is complete switch back to the original loco and away you go.

Removing the Cabview entry in the eng file results in the brakevan not rotating with the turntable, as expected.

Obviously this is not an ideal solution but it does mean that an invisible engine can be dispensed with and the brakevan is treated like a normal wagon in the consist. It is also possible to add smoke to the brakevan if required.

Over to the experts!!

Regards,

Stephen

**slipperman12** Sun 12 Jun 2016, 7:13 pm

Hi David and Stephen
I have applied for permission and will let you know when, or if, it is granted - keep your fingers crossed!!

As you say, Stephen, your suggestion would probably require permission to be obtained for every single vehicle to be converted, which could be an onerous task!!

I had an amusing little incident while testing today (well, I thought it was funny!) I'd left the brakevan and invisible loco in the turntable, switched to the invisible loco's cab and then heard a rapid "chuffing" sound. My original Player loco was haring down the path - I'd forgotten to switch to Manual mode!!

Cheers,
Ged

StephenRWells Sun 12 Jun 2016, 8:41 pm

Hi Ged,

I've had the same thing even when in Manual mode, I think that this happens if you don't switch the reverser to zero.

Regards,

Stephen

**slipperman12** Sun 12 Jun 2016, 9:02 pm

Hi Stephen,
Thanks, mate - I hadn't thought of that but it's quite possible Smile

Ged

**slipperman12** Mon 13 Jun 2016, 3:48 pm

Hi All,
I have now received permission to do whatever I want!!

I've had second thoughts about separate Invisible Engines for steam, diesel and electric. As they're not drivable, I think just a diesel would be sufficient, but separate versions for Chain/Automatic couplings and Vacuum/Air brakes, making four in all. What do you think?

Cheers,
Ged

StephenRWells Mon 13 Jun 2016, 5:35 pm

Hi Ged,

I think that just a diesel would be sufficient, 2 versions might do as normally chain and vacuum brakes are run together, likewise air and automatic.

Regards,
Stephen

dforrest Mon 13 Jun 2016, 5:40 pm

StephenRWells wrote:Hi Ged,

I think that just a diesel would be sufficient, 2 versions might do as normally chain and vacuum brakes are run together, likewise air and automatic.

Regards,
Stephen

-- ditto --

**slipperman12** Tue 14 Jun 2016, 2:29 pm

Hi All,
I thought I'd issue my invisible loco/s as a public beta and, to that end, it is attached here-to Smile

Please see EDIT
Unpack the zip file into a temporary folder and copy the resulting OR_TT_Invisible_Loco folder into your TRAINSET folder. Four unpowered "locos" are supplied to cover the Chain/Automatic couplings and Vacuum/Air brake combinations; the eng files have self-explanatory names.

Up to now, I've only tested it in activity mode and, although it's not entirely trouble-free, can be used correctly. I'll not mention the few problems I have, but ask those, who would like to test it, to give me your feedback, good or bad!

Those users who have already been using the OR turntable don't need any instructions on how to do it, but the readme gives brief details.

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT (16/06/16) : The file has been removed as developments by the very talented Open Rails team (Carlo, in particular!) have made it obsolete!

StephenRWells Wed 15 Jun 2016, 11:27 am

Hi Ged,

I've just used your invisible loco which worked well. The only negative point is what you mentioned in an earlier post and that is the slightly bigger gap between the normal loco and the brakevan. This is no worse than that seen in other consists. I tried it with both the loco pulling the brakevan with it propelling the brakevan - both worked ok. The path I used has the reverse point in the middle of the turntable.

Regards,

Stephen

dforrest Wed 15 Jun 2016, 6:23 pm

From Carlo at Elvas Tower:

With x.3567 it is now possible to turn also isolated wagons on the turntable. Move the wagon to the middle of the turntable with the player loco, detach the loco and exit the turntable. Turn the wagon. Reenter the turntable with the player loco, couple to the wagon and exit the turntable with it.

**slipperman12** Wed 15 Jun 2016, 7:42 pm

Hi,
David : Thanks. It's good news that the use of an invisible loco isn't required Smile

Stephen : Thanks for your reply. As you can see, there's no need to use my file now! As a matter of interest, I noted what appeared to be a large gap between the loco and brakevan I used (BR_Green_57XX_3646 and CCexGW_U_BVan_Oxley) but on investigation, found it was just the same without the invisible loco! This was to be expected as the invisible loco has only a very short length (0.1m). I closed the gap by adjusting the r0 values.

As there is now no use for my file, I'll remove it tomorrow (unless I am asked not to!).

Cheers,
Ged

StephenRWells Thu 16 Jun 2016, 1:08 pm

Hi All,

From Carlo at Elvas Tower:

With x.3567 it is now possible to turn also isolated wagons on the turntable. Move the wagon to the middle of the turntable with the player loco, detach the loco and exit the turntable. Turn the wagon. Reenter the turntable with the player loco, couple to the wagon and exit the turntable with it.

This is a wonderful improvement and you don't need to switch to Manual to rotate the turntable.

Thank you Carlo,

Stephen

**slipperman12** Thu 16 Jun 2016, 2:01 pm

Hi All,
I have now removed my invisible loco file.

I have tested X3570 and, as Stephen has said, it's great that there's no need to switch to Manual mode; I've also found that Autopilot and Extended AI train shunting don't need to be selected to operate the turntable.

Unconnected, directly, with the operating turntable, but while I was testing this version, I noticed that the loco's safety valves lifted for a short time. This is something I've never seen in MSTS, except at the very start of an activity. I apologise if this has been included in OR for some time, but would like to add my belated thanks for this touch of realism.

Well Done to the Open Rails Team Smile

Cheers,
Ged

StephenRWells Thu 16 Jun 2016, 4:10 pm

Hi Ged,

I have also noticed the safety valves lifting on various occasions throughout an activity in OR but I don't think that it has occurred with every loco I've driven. I'll have to watch for it more closely in the future. As you said it's a nice extra touch of realism.

Regards,

Stephen

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