UKTS Activity

Hi all, has anyone out there the know how to fix this excellent activity made for SDJR route. I have left a post on UKTS for the author unfortunately Darwin is unable to finish this this test version and I personally would not know where to begin. Over to all you MSTS geniuses out there. Cheers Ken H.

Hello Ken, which Act are you asking about !

Hi Roger, sorry for the confused post I thought I had included the following details; it is this activity one of the last complied for the brilliant Clive Heard route SDJR, 06.20 SO Derby to Bournemouth (from Bath) [0620SODerby.zip]  UKTS 31857. It has all the makings of a very interesting and entertaining activity but I cannot get a green from the Bath platform starter. Over to all you activity boffins. Cheers KenH

Good Morning, Ken,
I know you mentioned MSTS, but please confirm whether you're using MSTS or Open Rails

Cheers,
Ged

Crikey, now I cannot even go on UKTS again..Sorry Ken But I have looked through my S&D and don't have that act on it.

HI Ged yes I am using Open Rails to run the activity

Ged, This seems to be the Service_Definition ( 1035_Wellow_BathPL 38100 blocking the departure when  I move the activity to manual mode I find this train standing in Midford station obviously blocking the single line. perhaps I need to wait for it arrive at Bath  however I have tried this apparent solution and gave up after several minutes. Regards Ken

Hi Ken,
Thanks for that
It needs somebody with a better knowledge of how Open Rails works in these circumstances - it could be that there's a deadlock.

One way out of it would be to delete the service from the activity, but I realise that is not 'playing the game' !!

@Roger :  I've been on UKTS this morning and can still get in OK now.  You need to navigate past the warning messages!

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ken,
I tried this activity under MSTS.
I've always enjoyed this S&D route because the Player has to 'work hard' when driving a steam loco!  I know the climb out of Bath can be a 'pig' so was prepared for it!
Unfortunately, either I got allocated a rubbish fireman, or the loco's just not up to the job.  Three or four (or maybe, five) times, I ran out of steam on the way to Evercreech Junction!!  I did get there, but half an hour late.

It'd be very interesting to find out how the activity, and, particularly, this loco, runs in Open Rails

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Both,

I started to take a look at this problem earlier today. I was only able to spend a short period working on the activity, however long enough to establish that it runs ok in MSTS. Running OR I was able to replicate the same problem that Ken experienced. I removed all of the services and loose consists from the activity but with still the same outcome ie: starter signal will not come off. So at the moment I am thinking that it could be a problem with the reversing points before reversing into the platform or possibly a problem with the path that OR is not happy with.

I intend to spend a little more time on this problem but I cannot do any more before Monday pm. I will post back eventually with a succesful answer to the problem or owning up to failing miserably!!!

Good luck to anyone else who is going to "have a go" and let us know how you get on,

Cheers for now

Terry W.

Hi Terry,
Thanks for the update
I, also, have been trying it with Open Rails.
Using Autopilot, I found that the signal does clear as soon as the player loco couples to the coaches.  It stays cleared until 10:35.  The AI train causing the problem also starts at 10:35 so, like you, I removed it but without success!

I think that, somehow, at 10:35 the Player's path is 'lost' or destroyed.  I base this on the fact that at 10:35, switching from AutoSignal to Manual, allows the signal to clear on pressing 'TAB'. Attempting to switch back to AutoSignal mode after passing the signal gives the message "Train not back on original path".

By using 'TAB' to pass signals, I was able to get to Midford and the AI train.

Cheers,
Ged

Hi all,  Darwin of course stated  in the description that it was an unfinished untested activity,  I haven't used MSTS for years but I still have the mini route on my machine I will give it a try and see how I get on. Many thanks for your replies KenH

Hi all

Just a quick update about the progress in trying to enable this Activity to be run in OR.

As the Activity runs OK in MSTS I decided to leave the MSTS Activity intact as 6-20am SO Derby to Bournemouth and copy and rename it ORTS_6-20am SO Derby to Bournemouth, along with the relevent .svr file ORTS_6-20am SO Derby to Bournemouth.srv and ORTS_Bath-Bomo-Exp1.pat files. This gave me a copy of the Activity that I could manipulate and tinker with without losing the data of the original Activity.

It became apparant that departure from the original platform was something that OR, for some reason, was not able to allow, the starter signal stubbanly refusing to come off despite numerious changes to path, reversing points, removel of all loose consists and services. Changes to the player consist also proved fruitless.

HOWEVER departure from the other platform had not yet been tried and after generating a new path and moving the loose consit stock over to the other platform all seemed to function OK. The player loco started pulled forward to RP, reversed and coupled to loose consit and departed at 10.35 through an off signal.

So I am at the point of checking AI traffic to see if there are any conflicts with regard to timing etc.etc.

I am happy to share these files through a Google Drive link if anyone wants to play around with the amended Activity, however it is "as is" and
I would be happier to have more time checking the reaction of AI traffic.

Now off to a dark room for more..........fun???

Cheers for now,

Terry

Hi Terry many thanks for your work I look forward to a successful conclusion.
Regards KenH

Hi Ken,
I have been able to start this activity successfully by re-creating the Player's path.

There is a problem with the original path when running under Open Rails in that as soon as the light engine enters the platform, the 'Passengers loading' message is displayed even though the loco has no passenger carrying capacity specified.  This appears to be an Open Rails problem, but has been cleared by moving the RP much further down the platform This is NOT the cause of the signal not clearing.  I have not found the reason for that but, by regenerating the Player's path, the error has been cleared.

I have NOT run the whole activity, but the 'problem' AI train is waiting at its signal before Midford and, as soon as the Player has cleared the single line section, it continues its way to Bath.

The Player train is limited to 36 mph due to  the MaxVelocity value in the original light engine consist being set at  16 (metres per second).  This may have been the original author's intention..

I had hoped to attach a .zip file here, but it seems that I've used all my allocated space!!
It is, therefore, available from this link :-
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14pOBD7eJswMsYhVZihTI9T_56hbmko7O/view?usp=sharing
The .zip file contains revised  Player .act, .pat and .srv files which should  be used to replace the originals (after they have been backed up - just in case!).

I HOPE they work for you
There are quite a few differences between the original Path file and mine but the same station stops are made.  Therefore, I cannot guarantee that exactly the same tracks are used.
I have successfully driven to Evercreech Junction and will continue the journey tomorrow!

LINK REMOVED due to an error - see my post of 28 Oct 2:50pm

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ken & Ged

Good news Ged with regard to a fix for this Activity. It would seem that we have both been working down the same "path" to try to resolve it's problems.

I too have finally found a successful outcome and unlike my earlier effort does depart from the correct platform.

I am still happy to place a link, like yourself, to the amended files but do not want to confuse the issue by offering files that may confusingly affect anyones system, albeit that the files are named differently for OR. eg:- ORTS_6-20am SO Derby to Bournemouth.act etc etc.

Ken, I hope you will have your activity up and running asap, and enjoy your break in Bournmouth when you get there,

All the best for now both

Terry

Hi Terry,
SNAP !!
I didn't feel the need to separately identify the Open Rails version.  Although I've not yet fully tested my version in MSTS, it does start in the same way as the original.

I'll know for sure later today!

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ged

MAGIC!!

TW

Hi all, once again many thanks for your expert input, I have downloaded the updated files from your link Ged and  they work exactly as you described; I always thought that this activity could prove to be one of the most interesting pre nationalisation steam activities for SDJR. Once more many thanks to Darwin, Terry and Ged keep up the good work, MSTS and Open rails really are pure nostalgia for an old railwayman.  KenH.

Many apologies, Gentlemen.  I made a mistake!!

On the approach to Boarnemouth, you'll be stopped at a red - I think that was intended by the original author because you need to wait for an AI train to leave before you can access the platform you are allocated to.
However, the signal doesn't clear when that train has gone.  I have, obviously, set the path to the wrong platform!

You can enter the station by switching to Manual and pressing 'TAB' to clear the signal, but the activity won't complete correctly.

I have removed the previous link.

Ged

Hi Ged

The original (faulty) path terminated in Bournmouth West platform 4,however it looks as though your path is terminating in plat1.

During my time working with this activity I did have my player consist held at the same signal as you just before entering the station (plat 4). Eventually, after quite some time, the AI consist from, now I am not sure, either platform 5 or 6 did depart and the holding signal did come off and I was able to enter plat 4 and the activity terminate.

Unfortunatly I just cannot remember at what stage of my "experimenting" with the activity I was at and so cannot give any worthwhile input to help. Sorry.

Terry

Hi Terry,
No problem, mate
The AI train leaves either platform 5 or 6.
I have fixed it, but will test it before saying any more!!  The trouble is that it takes so long!  I have tried the speed-up mode, but the times were way out.  The reason could be that the consist is limited to 36mph so I have modified it to 60 mph and hope that it runs a little better.  If not, it's another long run !

I've also noticed that the driving wheels of a number of AI locos run more slowly than they should.  I'm pretty sure that's due to the modeller adding the cure for the old "speedy-wheels" problem, which was solved by the Bin Patch!  The .eng files WheelRadius is set to a ridiculously high value so that they would appear to be revolving correctly.

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT :  It appears that the use of platform 4, or the track to it, at Bournemouth is the problem!!  The signal at Bath won't now clear.
I also noticed in the original tests that, on leaving Bath, the 'Next station' list showed that the last station was Poole and that it was "missed". The same happens now I'm using platform 4 again - needs some more work, me thinks!!.

Hi Again Ged,

Your right it sure is a long run!! I'm afraid this conversation is snap snap and snap again as all of the topics you raise in your last post I have looked at also. The low speed setting I think in the player consist maybe to try to replicate "real world" speeds on the S & D of around 30mph. This statement is in one of the other route activities.

The driving wheels on a lot of (steam) locos to my eyes do not seem to rotate at a realistic speed, being to slow in rotation compared to the speed of the loco. This can happen even when the .eng file contains the correct value for the wheel radius. The oringinal modeller of LMSR_4F_4252 entered a value of 0.4meters ( 15.7 inch) in the .eng file and Darwin has entered the correct prototype value of 0.8metres ( 31.5inch).
The Activity calls for LMSR_4F_4252ds as the player loco and the wheels rotate rather slow for my likeing whilst the alternative.eng file (probobly the original) seems a shade on the fast side. This is true in MSTS and OR. In some cases, on other locos, I have reduced the wheelradius setting in the .eng file by as much as 50% to get a rotation speed that looks correct. Very much trial and error.

Anyway good luck on your travels to Bournmouth tomorrow,with bucket and spade of course, and say hello to Ken if you see him there!!!

Goodnight for now

Terry

Hi Terry,
I decided to go to Bournemouth this evening!! The sea was a little chilly

It IS Platform 4 which Open Rails doesn't like, so I used Platform 5 (the one from where the AI train the Player has to wait for has just left.  The only other platform is 6, which is too short.  The only problem with Platform 5 is that it has a 5 minute passenger 'loading' time!  But, at least it worked in OR.
Open Rails  (ORNYMG 132) spewed out a whole lot of errors regarding what turned out to be Platform 4 (called platform 210).

If Ken, or anybody else, would like my revised files, please say and I'll post a link.

I'd like to say thanks to Ken for bringing this route back to my attention   Clive made an excellent job and I've always enjoyed it.

I changed the consist speed to 60mph although it didn't make much difference overall because the loco struggles a bit up the 1.8% and 2.1% gradients, but it gives the Player a bit of breathing space on the level and down the hills!

Cheers,
Ged

Hi all, lads you have worked  wonders on this activity I never thought would even leave Bath yet here I am in the Midland Hotel in Bournemouth having a well earned pint or two with my young passed cleaner who did a great job with that tired old 4F we were allocated ( one can only dream ) Ged I would certainly appreciate the link to your most recent version of this activity. As an aside have you and Terry ever read the book Steam. Tales from the Footplate by Colin G.Maggs it is a good read and provides a detailed insight into the SDJR in the days of steam. Regards KenH.

Hi Ken,
I have not read "Tales from the Footplate" but will look it up. My two S & D books, unread now for many years I'm afraid, are "Mendips Engineman" and it's sequel "Footplate Over The Mendips" both by P.W. Smith.

Have a good journey back!!!

TW

Hi Ken,
This is the link to a new set of files :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GSqRTE1rmqHBVGvcQ_55mM7FEpya5ttX/view?usp=share_link

There are 4 files to replace.  I've included the traffic file (.trf) because I noticed there are slight differences between it and the original, although I don't recollect changing anything!
These files have had an extra successful run to Bournemouth today    However, I cheated and let Autopilot do all the hard work!!

Apologies for the 6 minute wait at Bournemouth for the 'passenger boarding' to finish - I think it's something to do with the platform settings.

No, mate, I haven't read "Tales from the Footplate" nor the two Terry mentioned.  I'm ashamed to admit that I'm not much of a book-reader  

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT : Just found out why my Traffic file is different!  It has a couple of negative arrival/departure times (why??) which Open Rails doesn't like so has modified!!  That means you don't have to use mine.

Hi Terry,
The 'speedywheels' syndrome I mentioned only applies to AI locos and a fix was included in Route_Riter.  This has obviously been applied to all the AI (#) locos used in the 6-20am activity because they have very high values.  Now, when used with Bin Patch enabled MSTS and Open Rails, they appear to revolve much too slowly.

I checked the Player loco (LMSR_4F_4252ds) and, yes, Darwin has changed the WheelRadius to 0.8m which is the correct value.  However, this only works correctly if the modeller as been accurate with the wheel size..  I agree that using Darwin's value does make the wheels rotate slower than they should.  I tried various values and, to my eye (for what it's worth!), 0.5m looks more realistic.  Try it and see that you think

I don't wish to 'teach my grandmother to suck eggs', but in case you're not aware, the .eng file contains two 'WheelRadius' entries, one in the upper Wagon Section, for non-driving wheels, and the other in the Engine Section, for driving wheels.

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ged, thanks for link it downloaded and worked perfectly. Regardss KenH

Hi Ged ,
And sorry for the time gap in replying to your last post, weekends tend to get filled with other activities and not of the MSTS/OR type.

I have tried the value 0.5 in the engine section and agree that the wheel rotation speed is visually better looking than the prototype accurate figure. I think as you say that it is probably down to the original model maker’s radius value selection.

For the entry in the .eng file for this loco’s wagon section I am now using these parameters;-

Mass ( 48.75t-uk )
WheelRadius ( 0in )
ORTSNumberAxles ( 0 ) Comment (Loco Specification non Driving Axels)
ORTSNumberBogies ( 0 ) Comment (Loco Specification)

With these in the engine section:-
WheelRadius ( 19.7in ) Comment ( Loco Specification 31.5)
NumWheels ( 3 ) Comment ( Loco Specification )
ORTSDriveWheelWeight (48.75t-uk) Comment ( Weight on all drive wheels )

however a different 4F model may well require different WheelRadius settings. Depends on the model and how it looks I guess.

Anyway it sounds as though you have solved Ken’s initial problem which was the original brief and so a satisfactory outcome all round I think,

Kind regards for now

Terry