Windows 10

Hi All,
Yes, in their infinite wisdom, Microsoft have decided to skip 9 and call their next version Windows 10!
They have just issued their Technical Preview version and I am currently downloading the ISO, but it's very slow, probably because everybody is doing it.
Over the next week or so I am hoping to report on how, or if, MSTS works under it, so please keep an eye on this topic!
I will also check if Open Rails runs, but don't intend to test "the other sim"

Cheers,
Ged

Ged
That will be of great benefit to many I'm sure. I, being one of the lesser mortals, am still trying to learn about W7! Yes I know support for this ends in next 5 years or so!

Hi Ged,
I too have signed up for this BETA version of Windows 10! I hope this is an improvement on Windows 8/8.1! I might consider installing it over the top or create a separate partition for it on my HP Laptop (The one that doesn't run MSTS Properly - the one with the squiggly/blotchy lines on it) - Not sure if this will resolve this issue, but I will give it a try!
Cheers
Andy

While I am sure my opinions on Win 7 are well known,I've not tried Win 8 or 8.1.But if and its a big IF,MSTS will work properly on WIN 10,my PC can go in the dust bin where it belongs !

In my case it's "better the devil I know", but I could be persuaded I suppose. It's all a case of whether current hardware/software will work with it.

Andy
The squiggly/blotchy lines could be related to the graphics card? Mind you I suspect that this is akin to "teaching Grandmothers to suck eggs"!

It seems that technology, gets faster and faster these days. No sooner have you bought a new lap top, it is out of date twelve months later. I bought a new HP laptop twelve months ago (running W8), which will run games like Silent Hunter 5 no problem (another of my likes). However, MSTS won't run on it because of the graphic card issue. So I just use my old Sony VA10 with Windows XP installed for all my MSTS material. Although this model is a desk top computer, it doesn't have a separate tower. Everything is tucked nicely within the monitor, a bit like a lap top all in one unit, so it stands nicely on a small corner computer desk in my lounge. As long as it keeps working, and will probably outlast me,    
I am happy to use it just for MSTS.

I recently upgraded to a new computer, I opted for windows 7 as it is more MSTS friendly than win 8, at the moment I have got both computers connected to a KVM switch and a data transfer cable, I now have a fully functioning MSTS set-up on the new computer with all the routes, stock etc copied over, I just have a few utilities like routeriter to install now.

I might be being a bit pessimistic but I can't really see Windows 10 being more MSTS friendly than windows 8 (if it works at all) as each new version of windows has been progressively less MSTS friendly than the previous version, MSTS is an old program now and MS no longer supports it, things have moved on quite a lot since MSTS was released, it will be interesting to see how people get on running MSTS on windows 10.

Hi All,
It's quite true that as Microsoft update their operating systems, it becomes more likely that there will come a time when MSTS won't work in any configuration!  I'd just like to point out that MSTS does work satisfactorily under Windows 8 / 8.1 - it's just AMD who have removed the required coding from their drivers; NVIDIA cards and drivers are still working OK (touch wood they continue to do so!!).  MSTS also "works" using the MS default ATI/AMD drivers supplied with Win 8, but it's so slow and jerky that it's not even worth trying.

Andy's "squiggles" may be due to the on-board Intel graphics - a great many laptops are so fitted.

Personally, I'm not expecting any great shakes from my Windows 10 tests

Cheers,
Ged

Does anyone know whether there's been any response to W10 from those who are developing OR?

Hi Ged,
If it helps my HP Laptop has the Intel Graphics HD4000 Graphics Card! I have had a look online and in the list of games MSTS isn't on there, but it doesn't mean it doesn't work..... I know that the squiggles in the letters in MSTS is related to the graphics card, but I am also wondering if this is related to O/S also. Unfortunately because of the Chipset on my HP Laptop I am unable to test with Windows 7; as it doesn't allow to backdate the O/S back from Windows 8!!!
Cheers
Andy

Hi Andy,
Sorry, but according to many posts on the trainsim.com MSTS Forum, PCs with the Intel 4xxx chipset all have that problem with MSTS under Windows 8. I don't have first hand knowledge of it, but I understand that if you can "see through" the extra letters on the screen and give MSTS the responses it expects, the sim will run.

Cheers,
Ged

Hi All,
I have to report that MSTS behaves exactly the same under Windows 10 as it does under Win 8 / 8.1 - so it's not all bad news!!

Using the Microsoft Basic Display Adapter drivers, as supplied with Win 10, MSTS starts and runs using NVIDIA and AMD graphics cards, although so jerkily that it's not worth playing.

With the NVIDIA 430 GT card installed and running Windows Update, it downloads and installs NVIDIA drivers 340.52 (2/7/2014) - MSTS runs OK but not great as it's a low-end card.
Changing the card to AMD HD 6670 and rerunning Windows Update, it downloads and installs AMD drivers 14.201.1008.0 (12/6/2014) MSTS gives the "...stopped working" message.

My report on Open Rails will follow later as I have to find out if the correct Net Framework and XNA can be installed into Windows 10!

Cheers,
Ged

That's good news that it will still run under Windows 10 hopefully all the windows 8 fixes and workarounds will work on windows 10 too.

Hi Mark,
I don't know what you mean by "all the windows 8 fixes and workarounds will work on windows 10" !?
If you mean keeping away from the Program Files folders, I think the answer's "Yes"! I haven't bothered trying MSTS in the Program Files folder in win 10 as I believe the same permissions apply as in the versions from Vista.

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ged,
I may have to take the plunge and try it out on my HP Laptop with Windows 8.1 and the Intel HD4000 Chipset..... Just to put this out there, has anyone tried this Graphics with Windows 7? And if so does it work fine??? (Just a thought)
Cheers
Andy

(Hoping we will sort this monstrosity of a mystery out some day!!)

I always use NVidia graphics Andy, never had a problem with that, whatever operating system I used, can your laptop have a separate graphics card fitted? some can and some can't, may be worth a look.

Hi All,
This is not a panic warning.... yet!! Just a heads-up in case someone else has the same problem

This evening, I started my Win 10 system and let it update (hadn't done it since December).
When it completed (and after a reboot!), MSTS gave the "Microsoft Train Simulator has stopped working" message. As well as the normal Windows update, Microsoft very kindly updated my NVIDIA graphics driver to version 21.21.13.7653 (376.53) dated 29/12/2016. Rolling back to my previous drivers (353.54 - 13/7/2015) all was OK again with MSTS. I tried installing a later version - 21.21.13.7290 (372.90) - 16/9/2016 - and MSTS started without problem.

The very latest version is 21.21.13.7866 (378.66) dated 9/2/2017 and MSTS fails with the same message. I don't know how many releases there were between September and December, but if I can find any, I'll test them and post back here.

All drivers were installed without the fancy bits - GeForce Experience, 3D Vision Controller Driver and 3D Vision Driver.

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ged,

I find I have not had any of the problems you say you have had. I have updated my GeForce GPU as each update has come along and at no point have I had MSTS crash on me.

I am running a GeForce GTX750 with 2GB memory with a Windows 10 x64 version 1607 OS Build 14393.693 on a desktop and am currently running version 378.66 dated 02/14/2017.

My MSTS is running on my C drive in it's own dedicated folder.

Thought this might be food for thought!!!

Mike

Hi Mike,
Thanks for your reply

That is, indeed, food for thought! It may be something else on my PC.- specification as shown in the signature panel for both Windows 7 and 10 - although I doubt it!

Cheers,
Ged

Also worth reproducing here Ged, your gen about the latest ATI/AMD drivers discussed over at TS.com? Namely these appear to prevent the previous ATI dll "fix" for MSTS being applied. It appears those of us on Nvidia are still okay (at least for the time being) but this does raise long term concerns as to whether MSTS may be approaching end of life. Just needs a similar Nvidia update and we are truly stuffed! At some point holding back on an update will not be possible (in order to run something else) or when buying a new graphics card.

At present I still plan to have a go at building one last route for MSTS later this year, but will we be doing so for a drastically reducing audience? Obviously a (partial) solution lies with TSRE and Open Rails but, despite what some at TS preach, you really do need MSTS installed to support the programmes.

Hi Vern,
Thanks for your reminder, and apologies for my omission of posting here.

However, as no-one else has actually reported any trouble with the latest AMD drivers, I am reluctant to spread the news further! There have been no replies to my post on UKTS of 20 Feb, and no replies confirming the problem on TS.com, so it made me wonder if it was a problem local to my PC.

Cheers,
Ged

I'm still limping along with Windows 7 based on the following comment; "Microsoft doesn't plan to stop fixing security problems in Windows 7 until extended support ends. That's January 14, 2020 - five years and a day from the end of mainstream support." Hence assuming my hardware lasts for another 3 years I should still be able to use MSTS on this computer, and of course hopefully suitable replacement hardware ought to be still available and affordable! Presumably at that time I should be able to isolate the computer from the internet and it effectively becomes a standalone MSTS console?

However that date is way beyond my philosophy of taking each day as it comes. You can only live in the present as yesterday has gone and who knows what tomorrow will bring!

In terms of Windows 10, I believe that a major new version of W10 (Creators update) is due in April of this year and support for the original version will cease in May of this year and hence is unlikely to receive security updates and potentially become unsafe. It will be interesting to see how this effects the use of MSTS in Windows 10? I also understand that a new feature will include the ability of Cortana to read your emails although not by default?

Two computer engineers have told me, at different times, to install a good anti-virus and firewall and possibly Malwarebytes or Spybot and ignore Windows updates, which usually do more harm than good. I have found that advice to be sound, and I am staying with Windows 7, partly because I use Paint Shop Pro 7, Word 2000 (occasionally) and Publisher 2000.
I have an XP computer for running Ami Pro, Font Lab and Scan Font and the above.

I am very much in favour of using new software when it is a real improvement on the old, but not otherwise. A younger friend, who usually knows what he is talking about, tells me that Windows 10 is rubbish and the latest version of Word is impossible. I thought an alternative point of view might be interesting.

Roderic

JASC Paint Shop Pro 7 Anniversary (10) Edition runs OK in Win 10, it is the later Corel versions, such as Paint Shop Pro X3 that won't, one is expected to fork out more "dosh".

John

Thanks John. Useful to know. I use it a lot for trainsim work. Roderic