K&WVR sim

Hello all,as most people on here know I'm the Bee's Knee's when it comes to PC's,so can anyone tell me if or not there actually is a KWVR - MSTS add on.I know it would be an old one.I have no trouble finding it mentioned from as late as 2012,but nothing after that..Thanks in advance , 

Hi Roger,
Here is the link to V2 of the MSTS KWVR Addon at the bottom of the page; http://www.kwvr.co.uk/kwvr1/other/pages/425-shopbooks.html
Cheers
Andy

Further to my reply about the location, I came across this thread as I am thinking about purchasing it for my Birthday next month!

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=120045&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

Does this mean that you have to have both versions of KWVR 1 & 2 installed; or can you get away with just V2 of the Addon???

Thanks in advance guys! Looks a really good Add-On!

Cheers

Andy

Hi Roger and Andy.

I have this route, it's very good route keeps your driving skills sharp as the route is a challenge to drive. It's good value for money as you get the current Preserved line in todays era as well as in steam days and the old Queensbury Triangle line from the 1950s/60s.

I've just released another act pack for the route.

The whole route covers.

Quensbury lines.

Bradford to Halifax and Keighley in both Directions.

Halifax to Keighley in both Directions.

Plus the Goods yard at City Road Bradford.

The High level line between Holmfield and St Pauls this is goods only.

The present day and BR versions of the Oxenhope Branch are also included.

all on one cd.

Hi Ben,
Thanks for the reply. The reason I asked is it appears one or possibly some of the locos in the pack are missing from the link I posted over at UKTS???
Cheers
Andy

I have both of these routes installed as Mini Routes. Together with downloads from UKTS there are some 50 acts for KWVLR and some 40 acts for The Triangle - doesn't include Ben's recent upload. I actually bought my copy of this route from Haworth station!

PS LYR Loco No 957 is present in my Mini Route!

Andy,here is a reply to an Email I sent today   ------                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       " I believe we have sold out and the chap that made it is making no more. I have asked the people in the shop today if we have any left but I note in is no longer showing on our shop home page
Sorry



Kind Regards
KWVR Haworth Shop

Haworth Shop
Keighley and Worth Valley Railway Ltd.

Oh well just have to hope DC 6 comes out soon,Regards

Thanks for the update Roger. I too emailed them and as yet haven't had a reply. I am hoping that because Ben has some dealing with the KWVR that he might beable to pull something out of the bag for those of us who don't have the KWVR Add-On??
Cheers
Andy (In Anticipation)

Hi All,
That is sad news, Roger!  It's a great route (two separate routes, in fact) and is very atmospheric of the area.

I'm wondering if there's any way we can get in touch with the author to ask if either he will produce some more CDs, or give us permission to issue it as freeware?  Could you let me have the email address of KWVR and I'll see what I can do!

As an additional note regarding the CD.  All Ben's activities require the use of v2.08.  I purchased mine a long time ago, and got v2.04; this could then be updated with 2 patches which have since been removed from the UKTS library!  The patches added quite a few vehicles.  There are no conditions in the readme files to prevent the patches from being made available elsewhere, so, as they were issued as freeware via UKTS, could I (for example) make them available to anyone who wants them?

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT : The patches include an email address for the author, Roger North, so I'll try that! It's a few (!) years old now, so may not be his current address, but it's worth a try - I'll keep you updated.

If you get in touch it migh be better to ask Pete if UKTS could distibute the disk as donation ware..
That way the K&WVR would get a few bob.

We could also add Ben's activities.
I would be happy to add any wagons they need.

I hope so Ian, but I fear I might be a tad too late! I too am waiting a reply from today's email and it's a shame if someone stops producing a fine route such as this!
I wish I had acted sooner is all I can say and I wish these fantastic route builders carried on producing as it is only really a cost of a disc and copying the original file....   
I was under the impression that the route disc was done for the line to aid costs etc anyway???

Here is a further Email I received yesterday:
Roger,I can confirm now that we do not have any stock and that it will not be available again,
Sorry...........the Email address I have is- shop@kwvr.co.uk.

It was a long shot I suppose,but I am very impressed with the speed of reply,ant the trouble they took on my behalf.  

Hi all,

Its a shame to hear you can no longer get this route anymore.

I do like Ian's Donation ware Idea.

But regarding my acts for the route I've used stock from ukts as downloads in many of my acts.

The wagons in the current pack under construction are Ian Macmillan's as were the ones in my last two freight packs.

also the loco's were downloads as well. So permissions from the respective makers would have to be sought first.

I (a long time ago) used to distribute the CD down here on the bottom of the world on behalf of Roger and the KWVR with most of the proceeds going to the KWVR.

Even at a time when the route was still being updated, I tried to get in touch with Roger (2007 I think) through an email address I had for him and then through the KWVR shop but without success. I suspect Roger is no longer with us. I know both he and his wife were involved in the KWVR so they either retired or moved away or something more serious.

I'm wondering whether it might be possible to get permission from someone at the KWVR to distribute the CD on a donationware basis. I'm not sure who held the copyright on it, Roger himself or the KWVR. (Obviously if it's through UKTS then I'm not going to get involved.)

Bob.

Hi Bob,
I still haven't received a reply yet from the KWVR peeps......   
If they no longer have any of the KWVR Disc Add-On's then why are they still advertising it??
I hope nothing bad has happened to Roger? Do you have any contacts at the KWVR Bob? If you do, do you think we can get copies done and the proceeds put to the KWVR? As I see it a win, win situation..... Those of us whom don't have the route get a great route (Just going by the feedback and screenshots; as someone whom doesn't have the route) and the KWVR get some funding to overhauls etc....
Cheers
Andy

Hi,
Although I haven't had my email returned (yet!), it appears that someone else was trying to trace Roger North in 2010, but it came to nothing.

This is an extract from the CD Readme :

 The rolling stock provided with these routes is mainly based on models obtained from "uktrainsim.com" with the kind permission of the various
authors who are identified within their respective TRAINSET files. The locos have much improved sound effects written by Stuart  Williamson using
sound recordings by David Bailey.  John Milligan and Terry Thornton kindly gave me permission to use some of their excellent backdrop and other objects.
 I am indebted to Tim Booth for allowing me to use his excellent UK Finescale track on the WV&QT route, also building some special track shapes to help with accurate construction of the two triangular junctions within this route. ....

.... Lastly, please get your friends to buy their own copy of this as all proceeds go to K & W V R, not to me. Sales Preserve Steam!

From this it would seem that if the donation-ware suggestion was to become fact, permission would have to be sought from many people!!   I think, being realistic, it won't happen, unfortunately

Cheers,
Ged

I would go a bit further than Ged and say that if UKTS is involved at all, permissions would be impossible. Terry Thornton certainly wouldn't give his permission. Longer term UKTS members will know why.

I've been thinking. (That's a Kiwi joke that I'll try to explain if anyone is the slightest bit curious.)

I was given a "license" to distribute the KWVR CD by Roger North (who holds the copyright) and the KWVR (who got ALL of the proceeds of the sales through the shop). That license has never been withdrawn. It had a couple of conditions - 1) that I couldn't distribute into the UK and compete with the KWVR shop and 2) that I send a certain amount from each sale to the KWVR as a donation. (Back in 2005 that resulted in about 90 UK Pounds going to the KWVR on 10 CD sales.)

Since it appears that the shop no longer sells copies of the CD, I'm thinking of approaching them and proposing that I will distribute worldwide as the demand requires, including the UK, on the basis of a donation to the KWVR and covering my expenses. What I am thinking of is if someone donates a certain amount to the KWVR (10 UK Pounds?) and sends me a copy of the receipt, I will send a copy of the CD using Hightail (the old YouSendIt). I think that will cost me nothing (other than the time) and so won't charge anything. If anyone wants a physical CD, I'll charge 5 UK pounds for that.

What I am able to offer is V2 of the route, including Bradford and Halifax, on which I have fixed all of the file construction problems (after discussing them with Roger).

Some of you will know that I'm a stickler for honoring copyright and would not want to do anything that violated copyright. I don't think the above proposal does. Are there any contrary opinions?

Any thoughts on the proposal?

Bob.

Hi Bob,
I think that's an excellent idea, and I thank you for making the offer.
I was in Haworth a few weeks back (Just before the T de F), and as I always intended to get a copy of the route but never got around to it, I did enquire in the station shop. The guy there knew about it, but told me that no more copies were available (as confirmed in this thread).
So, if you do get the distribution rights, I'll donate and be a "customer"   
T
PS. I'm not familiar with "Hightail", but do use "Dropbox". Would that also be a distribution option?

Hi Gentlemen,
Bob: I think it's a great idea! Although I have the older v2.04, I'd be prepared to make a donation to obtain your version, if it's 2.08, or later

Terry : Hightail is the new name for YouSendIt. I think it's very similar to DropBox.

Cheers,
Ged

I agree, it does sound like a great idea,    I have got drop box installed on the new computer but haven't used it yet, so I don't know how well it (or similar applications) work.

Hi Bob,
A fantastic idea!! If it does take off you will most certainly have me as a customer! Have you thought of doing it Via Paypal as well? So direct payment....??
As for Dropbox and alike, I'm not sure of what size the route is, but you will have to take this in consideration when uploading.
Thanks
Andy

Hi Andy,
Hightail allows transfers of up to 10GB, so the route in question shouldn't cause any problem!!
It should be noted that the recipients DON'T have to log on, sign up, or anything else, to Hightail.  When the sender transfers a file to Hightail, he includes the email address of the recipient, who then receives an email giving the link to download the file.  I would think DropBox is similar.

... and I don't think PayPal is free to the "trader"!

Cheers,
Ged

Thanks for the enthusiasm guys.

Hightail is the old YouSendIt and is very straight-forward. I tell it to send files to your email address, you get an email with a link to download the file. I've already split the files into three zips to get them under the Hightail 250Mb limit.

On the subject of version number, I'm not exactly sure what I have. I was originally distributing v1.60 and then Roger provided me with v1.75. When v1.78 was available he didn't send me a copy and that's about the time I lost touch with him. The latest version I have says Version 2 on the CD so it's probably v2.00. I bought it via the KWVR shop after they started taking credit cards over the phone. I don't know what the changes were for v2.04 and then v2.08. If anyone has 2.08 would it be possible for me to get a copy as an "official distributor"? Otherwise all I can offer is v2.00. I did a clean install of v2 yesterday and then fixed all of the errors (extra brackets etc.,etc.) so it's possible that 2.04 and 2.08 were updates to fix some of these (which I had discussed with Roger when the errors appeared in earlier versions).

If I can get agreement from the KWVR, I'm hoping I don't have to handle any of the money side. In my active time as a distributor of this and other routes, people mostly just sent me cash (well-wrapped). I was thinking the contributor would make a donation straight to the KWVR who can handle cash, cheques and credit cards through the shop, then send me a scan of the receipt by email and I would Hightail the files to them. The only need for me to get involved in the money side is if someone wants a CD. In that case Paypal is a possibility.

I'll try to get an email off to the Manager of the shop and ask the question.

Bob.

P.S. 250Mb is the Hightail free file size limit.

Hi Bob,
Apologies for that error   
The top line of the ReadMe.rtf file on my CD shows the version number.
I believe the last version was 2.08 which includes more stock and some reskins of locos already included.

Originally there were 3 patches available on UKTS as follows :
WV&QT__v2_Patch_1 - contains modified tdb and tit files for both routes - to be applied to v2.00 and 2.01
It will correct the installed WV&QT V2.00 and V2.01 routes to show station and platform names where
appropriate when the F6 key is pressed.

WV&QT_Updater_Part_1 - may be applied to v1.78 but the activities will only work with v2.0 and above
This file contains three new wagons, a new loco, a modified loco and 2 activities.
The three wagons are : KWVR_3PLANK, KWVR_7PLANK and KWVR_21T_HOPPER
The new loco is KWVR_TAFF_VALE_85
The modified loco is a reskinned KWVR_90733 together with a new cabview

WV&QT_Updater_Part_2 - should be applied after Part 1
This file contains two new locos and two new wagons
The new locos are KWVR_957 and KWVR_90412
The new wagons are : KWVR_INSULATED_VAN and KWVR_IRON_ORE_TIPPLER

Many of Ben's recent activities require Updater Parts 1 & 2 to be applied to pre-v2.08 versions of the route, but, unfortunately, they, and the Patch 1, were withdrawn from the UKTS library some time ago.  If you get permission to make this route available, I'd be pleased to let you have these files

Cheers,
Ged

Ged,

Thanks very much for that information. Do you have this all written down or is your memory that good? Either way, I'm impressed (again)!

Do you know the UKTS numbers for the three files and/or their approximate release dates? I have every file I ever downloaded from UKTS on CDs and DVDs and so probably have them somewhere.

I also have my own "operating" version of the route but it has added third-party activities and the stock has been modified to fit my own unique version of common sounds and cabs. I'll check that to see if the extra stock is in there.

What are the dates on the Patch_1 .tdb and .tit files. Again I can check with what I have here. It's quite possible that my "operating" version is actually v2.08 and so, with a bit of work, I should be able to create a v2.08 for distribution.

Bob.

Hi Bob,
My memory has never been that good, so I write down all sorts of things that I think MAY be useful one day!!
Also, I have a vast number of UKTS downloads dating from when I joined in 2007 which are archived according to classification! Sad isn't it??   

The UKTS numbers are as follows :
Patch 1 - 18970
Updater Part 1 - 19870
Updater Part 2 - 19871

Patch 1 - The same file names are used in each route :
Route : K&WVLR
The Triangle.tdb 13/05/2008 15:30 183KB
The Triangle.tit 13/05/2008 15:30 27KB

Route : The Triangle
The Triangle.tdb 13/05/2008 15:57 2853KB
The Triangle.tit 13/05/2008 15:57 256KB

Cheers,
Ged

Thanks Ged.

Not sad at all, just super-organised.

I managed to find Updater Part 1 and Part 2 in my archives but not Patch 1.

I checked my operating copy and the v2 CD and the .tdb and .tit files are dated the same, 6/4/2008 for the KWVR and 17/4/2008 for The Triangle. So it looks like I missed Patch 1 altogether.

Bob.

Hi Andy, you asked on the 13th Aug. whether you needed to have Version 1 installed before buying
Version 2,
I can confirm that Version 2 was a new updated Version of the original and included new tracks to take in the
runs down to Halifax and Bradford from the Queensbury Triangle Station.
This meant re-alignment of the tracks particularly at the Queensbury Station and so Activities written for the
original Version will not run on Version 2.

Bob

Thanks for the reply Bob.
Unfortunately it looks like I might never get to run on this route... :-(

Hi Andy,
Please don't lose hope, yet!!
If Bob Latimer's plans come to fruition, you may well be able to obtain a 2.0x version - keep your fingers crossed

Cheers,
Ged

Andy,

As Ged says, don't lose hope.

With help from Ged I now have a fully functional version 2.0x.  We're calling it that because I have an original v2.01 CD and have applied Patch 1 and the two updates.  We're not exactly sure whether that produces v2.04, which Ged has, or 2.08, which Ben has.

I've written to the KWVR to ask for permission to distribute the route (worldwide) to anyone who wants it and who makes a minimum donation to the KWVR (amount yet to be determined).

Fingers crossed.

Bob.

Hi Bob,
I'm sure it'll be near to a 2.08 because my 2.04 doesn't have the stock that the update patches 1 & 2 add, which are included in v2.08 - if you see what I mean   

Cheers,
Ged

That's great. I would prefer to provide the latest available.

Bob.

UPDATE

Our best guess is that the version I have now created ready for distribution is v2.08 (with errors corrected).

I have heard back from the KWVR as follows:

"An interesting proposition which we will discuss and get back in touch. We still receive a few enquiries for this programme but the last sold many months ago.
Roger moved some distance away a while ago and we no longer see him."

I'll let you know as things develop.

Bob.

Hi everyone, a quick check of the Read-me that is in my The Triangle Route Folder confirms that the one I
bought a few years ago from the shop has the version number of  2.08 and this must be the same one that
Ben has got.

Bob

Bob,

Are you offering to provide me with a copy of your 2.08 so that I can compare it to what I have?

Bob.

That is fairly positive news Bob. Thanks for the update! I really hope this gets given the go-ahead as I would really like to have this route in my collection!
Best Wishes
Andy

I have now been given permission by Roger North to distribute the latest version of the KWVR for MSTS at no charge. A contribution to the KWVR itself is suggested and encouraged.

If you are interested in the route(s), send me a PM here and I will get in touch.

At the moment this offer is limited to members of TSSH.

Bob.

That's excellent news Bob, and following Brian's post on his Australian route this makes for positive MSTS news!

Thankyou ever so much Bob for my early Birthday present! What a great Route! Scenery is fantastic and so are the Activities. I have only run 3 of them so far and am even going to have a go at seeing whether the older Acts in the UKTS library might work as well?
All the best
Andy

Andy,

Glad you're enjoying it.

The older activities for versions earlier than v2 won't work.  The track has changed, breaking paths.  I tried to fix the paths but some of the shunting activities especially just got too complicated and I gave up.

Bob.

Well now,what can I add to what Andy has said,nothing really except to say a personal thank you to Bob for the fine effort he has made in getting this little gem out.For those amongst us that do not have this Route (s) you should really consider it.IMHO the graphics and scenery are very good with everything from the Main "Bradford Exchange" and Halifax to the little "Pretty" stations on the Preserved KWVR,long Tunnels,Viaducts,the old (Cotton) Mills all included alongside the old rows of Terraced Houses.one final note,the Gradients,be ready to brake.Cheers Bob

I would like to echo the above comments too.

Thank you Bob for making this available, it's a great route.

Couldn't agree more with all the above comments.  Massive thanks are due to Bob for organising this.

The route installation was very straightforward  -  I set mine up as a Mini-Route (you don't need to, but I like to when a route has its own dedicated stock).

Thanks again

Martin

Bob

Is your very kind offer of Worth valley and Queensbury Triangle version 2 still available. If it is I would appreciate if I could get a copy. I am only to happy to donate to K & WVLR

Alan