SR EPBs

I have the brakes set up so they are self lapping.

       EngineControllers (
           Throttle ( 0 1 0.2 0
               NumNotches ( 5
               Notch ( 0          0 Off )
               Notch ( 0.10     0 Shunt )
               Notch ( 0.45     0 Full Series )
               Notch ( 0.75     0 Parallel )
               Notch ( 1          0 Weak Field )
               )
           )
          Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.1 0.75
              NumNotches ( 3
              Notch ( 0      1 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
              Notch ( 0.05 1 TrainBrakesControllerEPApplyStart )
              Notch ( 0.95 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart )
               )
           )
           
This works fine except for one thing:

I cannot partially release the brakes. They have to be released fully and then reapplied.

Any ideas how this can be put right?

Roderic

Hi Roger,

Please can you give us more information as to :-

what train are you driving
MSTS or if Open Rails which version are you using

All these make big difference so the more information you can give us the better.

Regards,

Stephen

Hello Stephen, for once this is not my Post LOL Roger

Hi Stephen,

Thank you for replying.

I am using MSTS version 1.2 with Bin.

I am driving Ian Jenkins' BR (SR) EPBs downloaded from UKTrainSim before it closed.

Also EPBs as supplied on London and South East.

I hope that helps.

Many thanks,

Roderic

Hi Stephen

The relevant part of the eng file is:

AirBrakesAirCompressorPowerRating( 3 )
AirBrakesMainMinResAirPressure( 30 )
AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure( 100 )
AirBrakesMainResVolume( 6 )
AirBrakesAirCompressorWattage( 20000 )
AirBrakesCompressorRestartPressure( 100 )
AirBrakesAirUsedPerPoundsOfBrakePipePressure( 0.8 )
AirBrakesHasLowPressureTest( 1 )
AirBrakesIsCompressorElectricOrMechanical( 1 )

TrainBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 2.5 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 2 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 45 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 90 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 36 )

BrakesEngineControllers( "Train" )

Kind regards,

Roderic

Hi Roderic,

Thanks for the information, unfortunately I don't have MSTS installed anymore so I can't do any testing. Hopefully someone else can help you.

Regards,

Stephen

Hi Roderick,
So that I don't needlessly install the wrong version, please let me know which you're using ;

UKTS_17648_IJ_Blue_SR_EPB
UKTS_17677_IJ_Green_SR_EPB
UKTS_19165_IJ_Blue_Grey_SR_EPB
UKTS_19208_IJ_NSE_SR_EPB

Also, which cabview? Default Series 2000 or LSE MT_GP_common.cab\\Class_421_CIG ?

Cheers,
Ged

Hi Ged,

Thank you very much. As soon as I get a moment, I will let you know which units and which cab view.

Very kind of you to offer your expertise.

Kind regards,

Roderic

Hi Ged,

I am using MSTS v1.2 withBIN patch

The trainset concerned is

UKTS_17677_IJ_Green_SR_EPB

The cab view is

LSE MT_GP_common.cab\\421-90-OldEMU-Cab.cvf

I have modified the cab view to synchronise with the engine controllers.

I have modified the engine controllers thus

      EngineControllers (
          Throttle ( 0 1 0.2 0
              NumNotches ( 5
              Notch ( 0          0 Off )
              Notch ( 0.10     0 Shunt )
              Notch ( 0.45     0 Full Series )
              Notch ( 0.75     0 Parallel )
              Notch ( 1          0 Weak Field )
              )
          )
         Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.1 0.75
             NumNotches ( 3
             Notch ( 0      1 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
             Notch ( 0.05 1 TrainBrakesControllerEPApplyStart )
             Notch ( 0.95 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart )
              )
          )

The EPB brakes do not have a hold position except when using the Westinghouse automatic air brake if the EPB brake fails. This cannot be replicated here.

I have modified the apply and release rates as the originals are much too fast.

AirBrakesAirCompressorPowerRating( 3 )
AirBrakesMainMinResAirPressure( 30 )
AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure( 100 )
AirBrakesMainResVolume( 6 )
AirBrakesAirCompressorWattage( 20000 )
AirBrakesCompressorRestartPressure( 100 )
AirBrakesAirUsedPerPoundsOfBrakePipePressure( 0.8 )
AirBrakesHasLowPressureTest( 1 )
AirBrakesIsCompressorElectricOrMechanical( 1 )

TrainBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 2.5 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 2 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 45 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 90 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 36 )

The following YouTube video is very useful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYIDTL3KwPI

I hope this helps, and thank you for taking the trouble to look into it.

Kind regards,

Roderic

Hi Roderic,
Thank you
I found that Youtube video most interesting!!

However, I'm pretty certain that I'll NOT be able to help with your problem!  I'd just be floundering, trying this, that and the other, probably without any success!!
You need somebody who knows how to set up realistic braking parameters in MSTS/ORTS  - Perhaps Darwin Smith will be able to help, although I think he has been concentrating solely on ORTS.

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT :  I found a document, entitled "EMU Brake Systems in Open Rails.pdf".  It seems to be within a file called "Electric Multiple Units.zip" by Darwin, which is available here :  
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/yu60mv5q41c4552bilxlr/39182_Electric_Multiple_Units.zip?rlkey=6hjda4lim8yxdr1filw8uvv5m&e=1&dl=0
I got the link from one of Darwin's posts on this Elvas Tower thread :
https://www.elvastower.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37827-trainer-for-or-electric-locomotives-emus/page__view__findpost__p__305783__hl__%2Belectric+%2Bmultiple+%2Bunits.zip__fromsearch__1
which you may find interesting.

Hi Ged,

Thank you for that. I will look into it later on.

Regards,

Roderic

Hi Ged and Stephen,

Thanks for your help. I've drawn a blank so far but, who knows, I might find the answer one day.

All the best,

Roderic

Hi Roger,
I've installed UKTS_17677 and run it as supplied.
I don't really understand what you're saying because I think the brakes can be partially released, albeit on one position only.

I then applied the Brake_Train parameters as detailed in Darwin's document I mentioned earlier.  I thought the result was LESS controllable than the original!

I then applied your settings but, to me, there was less control than with the original values!

I think what you're looking for is when the applied brake percentage is reduced, it should be displayed on the dial and the appropriate effect reflected in the vehicle's speed.  However, I don't think it's possible in MSTS as I've tried the default KIHA31 where the only way to reduce the brake pressure is to go to Release, then re-apply.

I don't think it's possible in Open Rails. I've run an LT train in the OR Chiltern route, got up to speed then applied 13% brakes. The train slowed so I set it back to 1% application, but it had no effect - the train continued to slow, then stopped!

Cheers,
Ged

Thanks for the reply Ged, but this is Roderics post not mine (for once)  Roger

Hi Ged,

Thanks for that. I will look into it.

All the best,

Roderic

Hi Roger,
Thanks, mate, I KNEW it was for Roderic so I've no idea why I addressed it to you!!  Must be my age getting to me!!

Cheers,
Ged

Most likely because I'm the one whose usually Stuck in the Much Neanderthal