Latest Mid East coast Download please

Hello Tony, yes it's very nice,and I keep going back to it. The only problem is that try as I may I cannot seem to get on GitHub to just d/l the new bits, so ended up d/l the complete Route again..

Hi Roger,

You're not the only one - I can't fathom out how to only download the updates. GitHub seems to have a language all of its own - repositories, forks, branches, funny symbols, etc. I've looked at the detailed instructions which seems only to help those installing The New Forest Route! ( good though it is )

I would be extremely grateful if someone could detail/demonstrate every stage of the process including Mick's GitHub address and also how to get the updates as and when they happen.

I have downloaded the complete V1.8 but this will overwrite any changes that I have done, the main things that I have done is to alter the timings of the level crossings - this has been a major issue ever since MSTS was first published. Why include working level crossings if you never see them working except if you look behind after you've crossed one? I have spent many hours changing the timings on most of my routes so that I can see the gates/barriers moving as my train approaches. This includes seeing when the road traffic stops and in the case of full width single gates one closing before the other so that the gates don't move through each other.

The route itself is a marvellous piece of work and a vast improvement on the original Cd where I spent many happy hours years ago so a big thank you Mick for what you have done and continue to do.

Tony wrote "Flat isn't it? How can there possibly be need for bankers on this route?"  Having spent several happy holidays in Norfolk I can assure him that Norfolk isn't flat - it's surprisingly hilly, although not as hilly as Wales, Yorkshire and Scotland to mention but three.

Stephen

Funny that you should mention that Stephen, but being Welsh and having parents that moved to Norfolk in their later years (before Sat Nav) I remember stopping and asking a local directions, to which he replied ;
"go on about a Mile (must have been a Country Mile) and just as you get to the top of the hill take a left and you'll just follow the way for about a mile (again again a country mile)and you'll come there.

I never found the hill. Loved it,and I must say lovely people, they just have a different way of looking at the world.
Back on the subject,it's a great Route, and lovely to drive.

I was brought up in Carnforth, just south of the Lake District until I was 12. Go west, north or east from Carnforth, and it is very hilly. Lake District nearby, Pennines too so I was used to hilly. I have actually been to Norfolk, and very pretty it is too, lovely countryside. Also travelled the line from Norwich to Gt Yarmouth a few times, and London to Norwich as well. My dad's mam was from East Anglia, so I suppose I have East Anglian blood in me too! Certainly the village where she was brought up (now inhabited mostly by stockbrokers) was set in a hilly area.

@Stephen - thanks for the comment - Lancashire too, as I mentioned above! If you have any success with altered timings let us know! I think that perhaps there is no solution. And of everyone I suspect you know the most about it. There is a manual for Github - I tried to read it but all I succeeded in doing was to get a headache. Definitely a tutorial would be appreciated. Of the "click on button A, now click on button B sort..."

@Roger - you are not alone. I was surprised to say the least when I managed to download it - sprained my shoulder patting myself on the back - but I too will rely on a full download for updates - it's not a hassle. Also, you being Welsh, I wouldn't have thought a country mile or two uphill would have caused you the least problem!

@Everyone - here is a serious query regarding MEC (and other routes as well, so quite a general query). I've looked on google for the answer, but no sensible answers to be had. It seems to me that travelling with the coal train at the line speed of 60 mph with a total mass over 1300 t might be a bit excessive, and also might not be prototypical, even with vacuum brakes. So the question is, for 1950's trains, is there a maximum speed either for the train or for the HTV wagons? If there is then I thought I'd limit the max velocity of either the train or the wagons. This would make it easier to run at prototypical speeds AND might add to the challenge of the Lincoln coal train activity, and others. Thoughts, anyone? The late Brian Bere-Streeter included maximum speeds in his documentation, but this was for pre-war operations.

The more I use MEC the more I like it.

Tony

I've found a partial reply on https://www.igg.org.uk/rail/7-fops/fo-intro.htm.

The express goods speed of 45 mph (72 kph) was really the upper safe limit for the traditional ten foot wheelbase four wheeled stock even when fitted with vacuum brakes and oil ale boxes. At higher speeds the stock proved unstable and tended to derail itself. Under British Railways a blanket 40 mph (64 kph) speed restriction was applied to all the older pattern four wheeled vehicles in the early 1960's even when fitted with vacuum brakes.

So it seems a maximum speed of 45 mph would be reasonable (or 40 mph if the activity is set in the sixties.

I'm still looking for further information.

Tony

Tony...The Act WAL Stone Goods is restricted to 45 mph, so I would assume that may also have applied to a heavy Coal Train, but the Coal act does run beautifully ! Roger

Me again! I changed the max velocity of the player train (Lincoln Coal) to 40 mph to see how it went. I arrived in time for the banker, I think I passed it in its siding at about 1422. I think the local passenger had left because the signal was off. Up the bank OK, but a bit slow, however I never lost any boiler pressure. Onward not exceeding 40 (except when the train ran away a bit not much) downhill. There was a mess-up at Beckingham Loop - I entered it as directed, but since I had a green at the other end I carried on. I suppose I should have stopped as instructed. The up express caught  up with me shortly afterwards and had to chunter along at 40 like me. Anyway, I arrived in time (14:38) at Terrace Siding, but the activity didn't end automatically presumably because the Beckingham event wouldn't have terminated correctly. Anyway, it shows that even with the 40 mph limit it is still possible to complete within the allocated time.

I noticed when I changed the max speed of the player train it was already set to 60 mph. I must therefore assume that Mick had information about what the prototype max speed ought to be (I don't really know anything about it to be honest.) Anyway it required a lot more concentration trying to keep the speed up to (and down to) 40 mph. Thoroughly enjoyed it, but I must try it again, this time stopping at Beckingham Loop.

Just a suggestion for Mick, with the greatest respect, and that is to specify an arrival time at Terrace Siding in the Activity Briefing.

This is a really engaging activity, the arrival of the banker, the seamless way it hooks up to the train, watching the banker reverse back to its siding, and not to forget the sound of the loco as the gradient reduces at the top of the bank. I was holding my breath and only let it out when the loco did. This activity has not been exhausted yet by a long road.

Tony

Hi Tony,

Don't forget that there is a different max. speed for each type of train.

In the eng. file of most, if not all engines there is a maximum speed for that engine irrespective of what it is pulling - passenger trains are allowed to go faster than goods trains for example - so any maximum speed should be applied to the consist not the engine.

Below is an extract of one my consists for a 100T twin axle tanker train with a maximum speed of 65mph

Train (
TrainCfg ( "S - 37031+104 + 6 SBP 100T L"
Name ( "S - 37031+104 + 6 SBP 100T L" )
Serial ( 1 )
MaxVelocity ( 29.0810 0.00100 )
NextWagonUID ( 8 )
Durability ( 1.00000 )

The MaxVelocity is in meters per second using the formula meters per second = mph x 0.4474

This obviously is much less than a Class 37's maximum speed of 90mph given in its eng. file

The downside of this is that every consist has to be set individually and it also applies to ai trains as well - no more heavy coal trains thundering downhill at 100mph without derailing!

Hope that this is useful,

Stephen

PS. I'll see about uploading my level crossing settings in another Topic

Thanks Stephen

Having searched the usual sites, MaxVelocity works exactly as you describe it. Google will also do the conversion for you and there are tables on ET. It seems the second parameter for MaxVelocity is inoperative in Open Rails for the player train. Wouldn't be any use would it?
MaxVelocity is not strictly needed for player trains, but I like the fact that it shows in the track monitor. Without it there would be no indication of overspeed in the evaluation. And as you say it is nice to see AI goods trains battling up hill instead of cruising effortlessly.

There was also mention of including the Maxvelocity parameter in .wag files. Supposedly this would slow any consist to the speed of the slowest vehicle, but I haven't been able to make that work. How nice that would be.

I don't find it any inconvenience to add the parameter to the consist file, but then I'm not exactly a proliferate writer of activities.

While on the topic, Brian Bere-Streeter had what I thought what was a nice idea - classify all the consists for a route according to the norms of the era, include the classification in the consist name so you'd know what's what, and include the appropriate maxvelocity parameter in the file. OK if the number of consists was not daunting.

What I was really looking for that Brian produced for his pre-war routes was a list of classifications and the matching maximum speed, but I have found practically zero information for British Railways, although it must exist somewhere. I've found some information on the LMS site, and now I think about it some information appears also in some of Darwin Smith's documents - I'll have a look for it.

It seems that timing of activities remains an area for much investigation, it is difficult in OR to get it right. May I ask, do you use MSAE or TSRE AE? Just curious, I can hardlly get MS to work on my more modern computers, so I have to revert to my pre 2010 Win7 (That arrived with WIN XP0. I find that with TSRE I have to rely on typing or editing the files quite a lot, but it does work. More so (typing) with  more activity features from OR just love the weather events. Can do without them in Oz, but the weather in UK changes quite frequently? Just teasing. I hope no-ones been inconvenienced, or worse, because of Bert.

Regards

Tony

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your comprehensive reply.

I much prefer the MSAE but with large routes like MidEast Coast it is impossible to use so it has to be TSRE which is incomplete for activity creation and, therefore, very frustrating to use. I have had to completely change my method of creating activities so it now takes much longer but I do get a satisfactory result.

Storm Bert didn't affect us here at home too much except when halfway through the lunchtime dog walk the very heavy rain arrived plus the wind meaning that we got very wet. Because I have to use a mobility scooter on the walk I couldn't speed up to get home any quicker - never mind I soon dried off indoors, so did the wife and dog!

Regards,

Stephen

I have spoken to Mick on the issues raised here and I am sure that he will be replying.

Hi Dave

I'd certainly appreciate Mick's wisdom on this topic.

Tony

Hi Tony & David,
I doubt that Mick will be able to do anything! It's the size of the route which makes MSTS AE choke or act very sluggishly.

As you know, David, we spent quite a time trying to get MSTS AE to even load Mid East Coast!!
I wish I knew the internal workings of, and inter-relationship between, Path, Service, Traffic, TDB and World files, but I don't! The present system of setting up Paths using Track Viewer and the contributed ActivityEditor seems to be rather 'clunky', although I've never used it. We used to complain about it, but at least the old AE was all integrated and, generally, fairly intuitive.

Cheers,
Ged

slipperman12 wrote:Hi Tony & David,
I doubt that Mick will be able to do anything!  It's the size of the route which makes MSTS AE choke or act very sluggishly.

As you know, David, we spent quite a time trying to get MSTS AE to even load Mid East Coast!!  
I wish I knew the internal workings of, and inter-relationship between, Path, Service, Traffic, TDB and World files, but I don't!  The present system of setting up Paths using Track Viewer and the contributed ActivityEditor seems to be rather 'clunky', although I've never used it.  We used to complain about it, but at least the old AE was all integrated and, generally, fairly intuitive.

Cheers,
Ged

The problems a using MSTS AE with the route are certainly known, if not fully understood, by you, I and Mick.

There are however several other issues raised in this string of messages.