Engine Brakes

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Engine Brakes

Post  RIGFindlay on Fri 04 Dec 2015, 8:42 pm

Various locomotives have various lines in their eng files about engine brakes and train brakes such as:

   TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate ( 2 )
   TrainBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure ( 0 )
   TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure ( 21 )

   EngineBrakesControllerHasProportionalBrake ( 1 )
   EngineBrakesProportionalBrakeLag ( 0.9 )

   BrakesEngineBrakeType ( "Vacuum_single_pipe"  )
   BrakesTrainBrakeType ( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
   BrakesEngineControllers( "Hand, Train" )

The train brakes work well but, though loco brakes are provided for by the [ and ] brackets, I have not come across a locomotive where the loco brake works.

Any ideas?

Roderic

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Re: Engine Brakes

Post  slipperman12 on Fri 04 Dec 2015, 9:10 pm

Hi Roderic,
Try the default Class 50 - it has a working locomotive brake; I'm sure there are many more Smile

Cheers,
Ged

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Re: Engine Brakes

Post  RIGFindlay on Fri 04 Dec 2015, 9:26 pm

Hi Ged,

Yes, I see, and there are a lot more lines in the eng file.
I shall try to equip some of my steam locomotives.

Thanks a lot,

Roderic

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Re: Engine Brakes

Post  rufuskins on Sat 05 Dec 2015, 8:55 am

According to Richter's "Manual for .eng- and .wag-files of the MS Train Simulator 1.0" the Engine Brake only works with the BrakesEngineBrakeType defined as ( "air_single_pipe"  ). For a copy of this document see HERE - in the Model Construction And Design - General (15 tutorials) section!


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Re: Engine Brakes

Post  RIGFindlay on Sat 05 Dec 2015, 12:46 pm

Alec, thank you so much. Of course I should have looked there in the first place. What a thickhead!
Roderic

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Re: Engine Brakes

Post  rufuskins on Sat 05 Dec 2015, 6:27 pm

I wouldn't worry about it as we all have our "senior" moments!


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Re: Engine Brakes

Post  RIGFindlay on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 9:01 pm

There are numerous types of locomotive brake, steam, vacuum, Westinghouse
air brake and combination levers that work steam and vacuum brakes as required.
None of the locomotives I use have locomotive brakes; the default Class 50 has air brakes, and Rudolf Richter's eng and wag file manual caters only for air brakes as far as I can see.

Fortunately there is a very good Standard 4 2-6-4T by Paul Mitchell on Danny Gilbert's South East Route. I have successfully converted four locomotives so they have a vacuum train brake, as before, and a separate locomotive brake, which is a very simple, straight-forward type of brake. I should like to make an air brake for ex-LBSCR locomotives with a lap position, but have been unable to do so.

One ought really to use the locomotive brake when working light engine or a loose coupled goods train. . It is also very useful for holding a passenger train where a station is on a slight gradient, rather than keeping the vacuum brakes on, which take longer to release. The locomotive brakes are controlled by the square bracket keys. [ Release; ] Apply.

If you want to equip your locomotives with a separate engine brake, it would be wise to make a back-up copy of your eng files before you begin.

The lines in the wag section that need changing are:

BrakeEquipmentType ( "Triple_valve, Vacuum_single_pipe,
Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" )

instead of:

BrakeEquipmentType ( "Vacuum_brake, Handbrake, Auxilary_reservoir" )

These lines need to be included in the eng section:

EngineBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 )
EngineBrakesControllerHasProportionalBrake( 1 )
EngineBrakesProportionalBrakeLag( 0.9 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 5 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 2 )
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 21 )
EngineBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 21 )
EngineBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 21 )
EngineBrakesControllerDirectControlExponent( 1 )

and:

BrakesEngineBrakeType ( "Independent,Vacuum_single_pipe"  )
BrakesTrainBrakeType ( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
BrakesEngineControllers( "Independent,Hand,Train" )

instead of:

BrakesEngineBrakeType ( "Vacuum_single_pipe"  )
BrakesTrainBrakeType ( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
BrakesEngineControllers( "Hand, Train" )

and:

           Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.1 0.99
           NumNotches( 0 )
      )

needs to be added to the engine controllers.

For example, in a screw-reverse locomotive:

       EngineControllers (

           Regulator ( 0 1 0.05 0
               NumNotches ( 0 )
           )
           Cutoff    ( -0.75 0.75 0.02 0
               NumNotches ( 0 )
           )
           Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.1 0.99
           NumNotches( 0 )
      )
           Brake_Train ( 0 0.99 0.1 0.99
           NumNotches( 3
           Notch( 0     0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
           Notch( 0.05  0 TrainBrakesControllerRunningStart )
           Notch( 0.2   1 TrainBrakesControllerApplyStart )
               )
           )

The three Brake_Engine lines have been added.

The following does not work. Why not? You get a locomotive brake but no train brake.

           Brake_Engine ( 0 0.99 0.1 0.99
           NumNotches( 3 )
           Notch (0   0 EngineBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
            Notch( 0.05  0 EngineBrakesControllerHoldStart )
           Notch( 0.2   1 EngineBrakesControllerApplyStart )
      )

This needs adding to the Cab View File (cvf):

Lever (
Type ( ENGINE_BRAKE LEVER )
Position ( 230 295 104 62 )
Graphic ( Blank.ACE )
Style ( NOT_SPRUNG )
MouseControl ( 1 )
NumFrames ( 12 4 3 )
NumPositions ( 0 1 )
NumValues ( 0 1 )
Orientation ( 0 )
DirIncrease ( 0 )
ScaleRange ( 0 1 )
)

Remember to add 1 to the:

CabViewControls ( xx       Add 1 to this number

I hope this works for you. If not, post a reply on this forum or send me a PM, and I will try to sort things out.

Best wishes,

Roderic

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Re: Engine Brakes

Post  slipperman12 on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 6:42 pm

Hi Roderic,
Many thanks for preparing this mini-tutorial, and for uploading it to UKTS.  Smile

The following does not work. Why not? You get a locomotive brake but no train brake.

          Brake_Engine ( 0 0.99 0.1 0.99
          NumNotches( 3 )
          Notch (0   0 EngineBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
           Notch( 0.05  0 EngineBrakesControllerHoldStart )
          Notch( 0.2   1 EngineBrakesControllerApplyStart )
     )

May I say that I know almost nothing about Engine Controllers, but you seem to have a fundamental error in this section.  This is after I have compared it with other controllers, which use notches.  The close bracket for NumNotches must be placed after the last Notch entry's close bracket.

I have NOT tested it, so may be completely wrong and, if so, I apologise!

Cheers,
Ged


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Re: Engine Brakes

Post  RIGFindlay on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 9:32 pm

Hi Ged,

You are absolutely right. I did not spot that, and I will give it a go.

Roderic

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Engine Brakes

Post  RIGFindlay on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 9:50 pm

For a Westinghouse-braked locomotive the entry should be:

           Brake_Engine ( 0 0.99 0.1 0.99
           NumNotches( 3
           Notch (0       0 EngineBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
           Notch( 0.05  0 EngineBrakesControllerHoldStart )
           Notch( 0.2    1 EngineBrakesControllerApplyStart )
                )
           )
This does indeed work. You get a vacuum-braked train and an air-braked locomotive.

I should have looked more closely at the way the train brake is set out. Old age . . .

Thank you, one again, Ged.

Roderic

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Engine Brakes

Post  RIGFindlay on Sat 15 Dec 2018, 9:36 am

The corrected text is shewn below in full. Some of us would be in a rare pickle without Ged to sort thing out.


LOCOMOTIVE BRAKES

There are numerous types of locomotive brake, steam, vacuum, Westinghouse air brake, and combination levers that work steam and vacuum brakes as required.

None of the locomotives I use has locomotive brakes; the default Class 50 has air brakes, and Rudolf Richter's eng and wag file manual caters only for air brakes as far as I can see.

Fortunately there is a very good Standard 4 2-6-4T by Paul Mitchell on Danny Gilbert's South East Route. I have successfully converted four locomotives so they have a vacuum train brake, as before, and a separate locomotive brake, which is a very simple, straight-forward type of brake. It is possible to make an air brake for ex-LBSCR locomotives with a lap position, and this is shewn below.

One ought really to use the locomotive brake when working light engine or a loose-coupled goods train. It is also very useful for holding a passenger train where a station is on a slight gradient, rather than keeping the vacuum brakes on, which take longer to release. The locomotive brakes are controlled by the square bracket keys. [ = Release. ] = Apply.

If you want to equip your locomotives with a separate engine brake, it would be wise to make a back-up copy of your eng files first:

The lines in the wag section that need changing are:

   BrakeEquipmentType ( "Triple_valve, Vacuum_single_pipe,
   Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" )

instead of:

BrakeEquipmentType ( "Vacuum_brake, Handbrake, Auxilary_reservoir" )

These lines need to be included in the eng section:

EngineBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 )
EngineBrakesControllerHasProportionalBrake( 1 )
EngineBrakesProportionalBrakeLag( 0.9 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 12 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 2 )
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 21 )
EngineBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 0 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 21 )
EngineBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 21 )
EngineBrakesControllerDirectControlExponent( 1 )

and:

BrakesEngineBrakeType ( "Independent,Vacuum_single_pipe"  )
BrakesTrainBrakeType ( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
BrakesEngineControllers( "Independent,Hand,Train" )

need to be substituted for:

BrakesEngineBrakeType ( "Vacuum_single_pipe"  )
BrakesTrainBrakeType ( "Vacuum_single_pipe" )
BrakesEngineControllers( "Hand, Train" )

and:

           Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.1 0.99
           NumNotches( 0 )
      )

needs to be added to the engine controllers.

For example, in a screw-reverse locomotive:

       EngineControllers (

           Regulator ( 0 1 0.05 0
               NumNotches ( 0 )
           )
           Cutoff    ( -0.75 0.75 0.02 0
               NumNotches ( 0 )
           )
           Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.1 0.99
           NumNotches( 0 )
      )
           Brake_Train ( 0 0.99 0.1 0.99
           NumNotches( 3
           Notch( 0     0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
           Notch( 0.05  0 TrainBrakesControllerRunningStart )
           Notch( 0.2   1 TrainBrakesControllerApplyStart )
               )
           )

The three Brake_Engine lines have been added.

The following gives you a Westinghouse brake with a Lap or Hold position.

           Brake_Engine ( 0 0.99 0.1 0.99
           NumNotches( 3
Notch (0   0 EngineBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
           Notch( 0.05  0 EngineBrakesControllerHoldStart )
           Notch( 0.2   1 EngineBrakesControllerApplyStart )
          )
)


This needs adding to the Cab View File (cvf):

Lever (
Type ( ENGINE_BRAKE LEVER )
Position ( 230 295 104 62 )
Graphic ( Blank.ACE )
Style ( NOT_SPRUNG )
MouseControl ( 1 )
NumFrames ( 12 4 3 )
NumPositions ( 0 1 )
NumValues ( 0 1 )
Orientation ( 0 )
DirIncrease ( 0 )
ScaleRange ( 0 1 )
)

Remember to add 1 to the:

CabViewControls ( xx    Add 1 here.

I hope this works for you. If not, email me roderic.findlay@mypostoffice.co.uk, and I will try to sort things out.

Best wishes,

Roderic


Last edited by RIGFindlay on Sat 15 Dec 2018, 12:45 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Engine Brakes

Post  slipperman12 on Sat 15 Dec 2018, 10:59 am

Hi Roderic,
No problem, mate - Glad to be able to help Smile

Cheers,
Ged


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Re: Engine Brakes

Post  RIGFindlay on Sat 15 Dec 2018, 2:17 pm

In the Westinghouse engine brake, the 'Hold' position does not work as it should. The brakes are applied slowly even when you move from 'Release' to 'Hold'. If 'Hold' is replaced by 'SelfLap', the same thing happens. The 'Hold' or 'SelfLap' position works perfectly on DMUs and on EMUs with the straight Westinghouse brake which is not self-lapping.

That remains a mystery for the time being.

Roderic

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Re: Engine Brakes

Post  darwins on Wed 19 Dec 2018, 8:57 pm

Very impressed to see that new ideas to improve MSTS performance are still appearing. Well done Roderic for working this one out!

Excellent idea to add locomotive brakes. Most locomotives did have an independent locomotive brake. (Many GWR steam locos had only the vacuum brake for both train and locomotive, having said that, they did have very powerful vacuum ejectors so could release to 25 in Hg pretty quickly. They also had a release valve that would release only the engine and tender brakes without releasing those on the rest of the train.)


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Re: Engine Brakes

Post  RIGFindlay on Thu 20 Dec 2018, 8:38 am

Thanks, Darwin, for your kind words. I would really like to know a lot more about locomotive brakes, but it's a start. I wonder what the Americans do. It should be simpler having air brakes throughout. I'd like to know how quickly air and steam brakes apply and release.

At present I am working on buffer stops for bay platforms.

All the best,

Roderic

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